Quote from: bitwala on August 23, 2017, 02:01:59 PM

Quote from: Dangerous_Mind on August 22, 2017, 09:58:30 PM

Quote from: bitwala on August 22, 2017, 01:31:57 PM

Quote from: Dangerous_Mind on August 22, 2017, 05:54:38 AM

Hi,

Why do you announce a 0,5% fee to transfer money to the card and then lower the value of the bitcoins transferred (about 10%) and add a 15 fee on a 100 transfer instead of the 0,5%?
Making a total of 25 on fees?
Is that normal?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.

Fees for card top ups:
When you top up your card we exchange your Bitcoin (at the rate shown on your dashboard - my.bitwala.com) in Euro and load your card with that amount. Our fee is 0,5% + network fees.

Fees for international money transfers:
We offer multipel local currencies for 0,5% (min 1) and some local currencies for 1,0% + 15, but these have nothing to do with card top ups.

List of all our fees:
You can find all our fees here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Please let me know if this answers your question otherwise feel free to get to me.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

According to your support line its a UTXO. And it's asking me a fee from 13 to 21 for a 100 transfer.
The amount you ask for this "Transaction fee" is always different for the same amount all most two times. I've seen fees from 13 to 21 in a day.

Also the EUR you pay for each bitcoin from the wallet to the card is very low compared to market value. Is at least 10% lower.

So if you have 114 (0.0032 btc) on your wallet you will only receive around 94 (0.002790 btc) in your card and pay a fee off 16.50 (0.00488 btc).
Your network fee can be any value. I already had a fee of 21 for this some amount some hours back.
In this case I would receive 89 for my 114. 25 less.

My question is:
How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
Why didn't I pay 13 as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8 to my bank account?
Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

Thank you for getting back to me.

How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
This is a very complex question to answer but you can find an explanation here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
You can find most of our rates here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/ The rest you can see as soon as you unlocked level 2 and level 3.

Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
The conversion rate is the same for card top ups. The amount shown in the top up invoice incl. the network fees and the UTXO fees. We will be launching an update that will show you a breakdown of all fees in more detail when topping up your card very shortly.

Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
The amount of BTC is always the same but it can happen that the app is showing a slightly different amount. The reason for this is that the app is maybe not in sync with the web app.

Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
The conversion rates on our apps and on the web are the same. Please double check and try reloading your page and please remember that the app is maybe not in sync.

Why didn't I pay 13 as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8 to my bank account?
The amount of network fees depends on the volume of data needed to be put on the Blockchain. The data volume depends on how small your received BTC amounts are that you want to send. E.g. you could pay for a coffee with one 2 coin or with 200x 1 Cent coins. The 200x 1 Cent coins are more work to process than the single 2 coin and therefore the fees are higher. I would like to emphasize that Bitwala has no influence on these fees or on the UTXO fees.

Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
Our policy towards our cards is that users should have full control over their Bitcoin and also be able to use them on their card with minimal delay. For this reason we have setup the satoshi/byte rate to be quick to insure this.

And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card
Thank you for pointing that out. We have updated our help section.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

This is a very complex question to answer but you can find an explanation here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/ (https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/)
That page points to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ and that page says:
"Which fee should I use?

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 420 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 94,920 satoshis." = 3.3 EUR.

You can find most of our rates here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/ (https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/) The rest you can see as soon as you unlocked level 2 and level 3.
There is no information about rates on that link. I have level 2. Only with level 2 I could get a card.

Our policy towards our cards is that users should have full control over their Bitcoin and also be able to use them on their card with minimal delay. For this reason we have setup the satoshi/byte rate to be quick to insure this.
Like you said "we should have full control over our Bitcoins" and we should decide if we need the money that instant or one week later.
The satoshi rate is "influenced" by the mempool. I don't need to apply a 500 satoshi/byte if the pool is empty because the time will needed to complete the transaction will be the same.

At this moment I could pay 31 satoshi and it would take 20 mins to make the transaction. If I pay 500 it could take until 30 mins.
Why would I pay 16 times more if I could even receive the money before?
But your UTXO fee continues at 15.

I use services that join transactions and they charge us 0,2% of the amount to pay for bitcoin fees. Exchange services don't use fees that high.

All this discussion could be avoided if this information was on your site or next to operation we were using.
As a example you have Xapo. He has his conversion rates right under the value and we already know that they will pay 100 less for each bitcoin (around 9%). And people can decide to use the service or not. But they are not miss leading people.

There are a lot of things that you have to improve on your services.

By the way. Your app has been giving internal server error for some days wen trying to transfere money to a bank account.