Quote from: IronSongie on September 01, 2017, 09:07:37 AM

Quote from: stupido656 on August 31, 2017, 11:21:47 PM

Quote from: IronSongie on August 31, 2017, 12:09:13 PM

Quote from: stupido656 on August 31, 2017, 10:11:38 AM

Quote from: IronSongie on August 31, 2017, 08:34:40 AM

Quote from: stupido656 on August 30, 2017, 11:32:17 PM

How do you know that they could easily afford to pay off all the lenders immediately? They are not transparent with this kind of information. Only way you could know that they can afford to pay off all the lenders is if you blindly trust them without them providing any evidence, knowledge or information. Being positive is generally great, but being too positive is ignorance and ignorance is evil, the only good is knowledge.

Its basic math really, if i bought 10010$ worth of Bitconnect in may, i would have gotten 1250 ish coins for 8$ each, staking these coins would have provided me with an additional 300-400 coins, my total amount of coins + extra minted coins would be worth a total value of 214.000$ dollar if i sold them now 120 days later.

Now if i lended it into the Bitconnect platform for 120 days like most did, bitconnect pays back the principal amount of 10000 + around 18.000 in acrued profit from lending it to bitconnect, so after 4 months i get back 28.000$, bitconnect who has been staking "your" coins all this time makes 186.500$ as they only need to return 215 out 1250 invested coins back to you at the current value of 130$ per coin.

Also, if they keep the other 1035 coins as their reserve, these coins also mint an additional 82.8 coins per minting period, again 10.764$ in the pocket of Bitconnect and this process keeps going as the coin rises in price they need to give back less and less of it, so they acrue most of the minted stakes themselves, causing a snowball effect.

For bigger invested amounts the math stays the same, they just made more money and we people are happy with 1% per day without the risk of the coin collapsing, in this instance Bitconnect is the bag holder, it just turns out to be making profit holding them and they make money of people trading on their site aswell. (Which translates to roughly 530.000$ monthly aswell)

I personally dont know if they have a bot, but they could just run a half assed Gunbot at this point in time, they have the funds to play with and a Gunbot isnt really rocket science either, now compare this system they have in place vs a bitcoin doubler site, bitcoin goes in, more bitcoin comes out is completely diffrent, that why i personally won,t go near sites like thunderbit, Ambis, Control Finance etc on those sites, there is no basic math that you can do to them to see if they are making any money, they just have a "bot" and that supposedly pays out 10% profit a day.

Yes it have indeed kind of worked so far because the amount of users, lenders, holders and stakers of BitConnect have been rapidly increasing BUT try do that same math with decreasing or stagnant amounts and you will understand that it is a ponzi scheme because it will not work anymore when the amount of new money comming in stop rapidly increasing, they would not even be able to pay back the lenders when the amount of new users, lenders, holders and stakers start decreasing or stay stagnant instead of rapidly increasing.

Let me provide you an example what will happen when the amount of new money stays stagnant so the price of BitConnect tokens remain the same. Lets imagine it stays stagnant from now until end of december (120 days)

Its basic math really, if I bought 10010$ worth of Bitconnect tokens now, I would get 76ish tokens for 132$ each, staking these tokens would have after 4 months provided me with an additional 24 tokens, my total amount of tokens + extra minted tokens would be worth a total value of 13200$ dollar if I sold them 120 days later.

Now if I lended it into the Bitconnect platform for 120 days like most do, bitconnect pays back the principal amount of 10010 + around 18,000 in acrued profit from lending it to bitconnect, so after 4 months I get back 28,010$, bitconnect who has been staking "your" coins all this time makes still make a loss of 14832$(18000-3168) as they need to return 76 out 100 invested coins back to you at the current value of 132$ per coin. So from a 10010$ loan they make a net loss of 14832$.

Now an example of what will happen if the amount of new money decrease hard so the price drops 50% to 66$. Lets imagine it is decreased from now until end of december (120 days)

Its basic math really, if I bought 10010$ worth of Bitconnect tokens now, I would get 76ish tokens for 132$ each, staking these tokens would have after 4 months provided me with an additional 24 tokens, my total amount of tokens + extra minted tokens would be worth a total value of 6600$ dollar if I sold them 120 days later at the price of 66$ each.

Now if I lended it into the Bitconnect platform for 120 days like most do, bitconnect pays back the principal amount of 10010 + around 18,000 in acrued profit from lending it to bitconnect, so after 4 months I get back 28,010$, bitconnect who has been staking "your" coins all this time makes still make a loss of 16416$(18000-1584) as they need to return 76 out 100 invested coins back to you at the current value of 66$ per coin. So from a 10010$ loan they make a net loss of 16416$.

Now an example of what will happen if the amount of new money increase "slowly" so the price drops doubles to 264$. Lets imagine it is increase from now until end of december (120 days)

Its basic math really, if I bought 10010$ worth of Bitconnect tokens now, I would get 76ish tokens for 132$ each, staking these tokens would have after 4 months provided me with an additional 24 tokens, my total amount of tokens + extra minted tokens would be worth a total value of 26400$ dollar if I sold them 120 days later at the price of 264$ each.

Now if I lended it into the Bitconnect platform for 120 days like most do, bitconnect pays back the principal amount of 10010 + around 18,000 in acrued profit from lending it to bitconnect, so after 4 months I get back 28,010$, bitconnect who has been staking "your" coins all this time makes still make a loss of 11664$(18000-6336) as they need to return 76 out 100 invested coins back to you at the current value of 264$ per coin. So from a 10010$ loan they make a net loss of 11664$.

Now an example of what will happen if the amount of new money increase "decently" so the price drops quadruple to 528$. Lets imagine it is increase from now until end of december (120 days)

Its basic math really, if I bought 10010$ worth of Bitconnect tokens now, I would get 76ish tokens for 132$ each, staking these tokens would have after 4 months provided me with an additional 24 tokens, my total amount of tokens + extra minted tokens would be worth a total value of 52800$ dollar if I sold them 120 days later at the price of 528$ each.

Now if I lended it into the Bitconnect platform for 120 days like most do, bitconnect pays back the principal amount of 10010 + around 18,000 in acrued profit from lending it to bitconnect, so after 4 months I get back 28,010$, bitconnect who has been staking "your" coins all this time makes still make a loss of 5328$(18000-12672) as they need to return 76 out 100 invested coins back to you at the current value of 528$ per coin. So from a 10010$ loan they make a net loss of 5328$.

As you can see the system is not long term sustainable at all, the price of BitConnect token would need to octuple every 120 days for BitConnect to turn a profit. This might work for a while, probably max 1-2 years and after that BitConnect will start bleeding money and become insolvent and lenders will get a huge haircut or straight up lose all their money.

Also your approach is wrong and you are a little bit confused. The BitConnect tokens deflates an equal amount so you don't really gain anything when you get new tokens from staking because the price goes down an equal amount. When the price remains the same or goes up in value its because of an increasing number of new money entering BitConnect.

Imaginary example for even a dumb person to understand this:
Lets say 1$=1
Lets say in the world there a total of 100$ and 100
Lets say 100$ more is printed so there is a total of 200$ in the world
Now 2$=1 instead of 1$=1

Kudos for writing all that out, but i only did an example on my own loan,

Bitconnect owns 4.8 million set aside of their own coins witch are worth of 624m $, not counting other loaned coins in their possesion as only around 4m $ is traded each day, maybe a bit more now, those 4.8m coins mint 384.000 coins on their own which is another 49.920.000$ every minting period and those coins have nothing todo with personal loans, they have been minting coins since it started.

even if the coin would drop by 50%, that just means they are minting 25.000.000$ on their own, while only needing to give you 28.000$ after a 4 month period out of their 100-200m minted gains, so even if their coin drops they still make a profit and can pay their users.

Unless the coin deflates completely, its not going to be an issue, but then bitconnect has the cirquit breaker and supply and demand to control the coin, as more and more coins get reinvested and locked away for 299 days, coins are in a natural state of short supply.

So unless they actually shut down and run with their 600m $ the coin is not going to deflate if they keep paying us 1% peanuts to the truckloads of money they are making.

And if they are smart, which they are, seeing they came up with this coin, they are going to make a lot more if they support the coin going up while staying legit.

Maybe it started as a big ICO scam and they are like ow fuck, this is making us boatloads of money, we don't know. But any busness that stagnates like you said ie no new work coming in dies, its the same for a big building company, they loose a big contract and they need to shut down, if people lose faith in bitconnect it will shut down like any other busness.

As you make it seem i am the "Dumb" person here, might i remind you that you just used my "basic math" with a few diffrent numbers tacked to it as opposed to writing up your own "basic math", Monkey see, Monkey does i suppose.

Edit: also most of your examples and text doesnt make any sense, if the coin value goes up to 528$ per coin and they need to pay out 28.000$ they dont pay you back 76 coins, they give you back 53 coins, the staked coins will also only be 6 instead of 24, they keep 29 of the coins which are worth 15.312$, less profit, but still not too bad because the leverage from 132$ to 528$ vs 8 to 130$ is only 4 times more as opposed to 16x.

Now i know why most people don't get it, their "basic" math is wrong.

I was a little bit tired when I did the math and tried to simplify it as much as possible and make it look like yours so you could understand it. But let me give you aonther example:

If I was to make a new COIN, I printed 1,000,000 of theese coins and sold 1 coin for 100$ to a freind. Coinmarketcap would say the market cap of my coin would be 100,000,000$. But do you really think I would get 99,999,900$ if I tried to sell my last 999,999 coins? Mathematically I should get under 100$ in total for all of my last 999,999 coins.

Or what if I made a new COIN, I printed 1,000,000,000 of theese coins and started selling them for 1$ each and told people that I will double their investment after 30 days, you would buy 1000 coins for 1000$ and expect to get 2000$ back after 30 days. If during these 30 days no one else invested I would not have the liquidity to pay you back 2000$ BUT if there was a increasing number of new investors lets say 3 new people who each bought 1000 coins for 1000$ I would have 4000$ total so I would be able to pay you back 2000$ and keep the ponzi scheme running aslong as it keeps rapidly growing and with a nice referral program, marketing and complicated enough structure so 99% of the people don't understand how it works I could easily keep this ponzi scheme running for several years. And you know what? This is a simplified version with the same concept of a "company" called BitConnect.

There is really no need to go into complicated details about how BitConnect works, it is what throws you off and the downfall of most people who try to analyze it. Just think of BitConnect as a company that double your money every few months, you give them money and they double it within a few months. Now for BitConnect to be able to double your money every few months they need to grow that money you give them somehow, they say it is a volatility software bot that buy and sell bitcoin on different exchanges and generates so much profit that it can double your money every few months, this is something so unrealistic that most intelligent people know it is a scam because if they had a software like this they would not need BitConnect, blockchain or customers to loan them money, they would be nobel prize winners that everyone would invest in or they could sell their volatility software for trillions of dollars straight away or they could just start running the volatility software themself with a 100,000$ bank loan and become the worlds first quadrillionaires within a few years. So from this we can make the conclusion that there is no volatility software bot that can double your money every few months and BitConnect is just aonther Ponzi that pays customers with customer money until they exit scam or they are lying about everything and just straight up gamble or high risk invest customer funds which is not what people signed up for a therefore a scam, that will also crash and burn eventually when they stop getting lucky playing roulette with customer money.

You really dont need to keep rehashing the same stuff over and over as some sort of Ponzinator, that belongs to the 99% that he advocates for, until they show they have a trading bot i full wel realise that they might not have one (i said this on multiple accounts) but we cant prove or disprove that fact any other way, the thing you don't get is that they can atm pay people with minted coin money, i know that this doesnt make it right if they don't have a bot but it does mean that they have "some" income from another source, where regular ponzi's do not, so if this is a ponzi the collapse would be dec-2019 when the minting stops, unless they run off first with the money, but with all their faces in public view, they will go to jail.

So whatever you are I say on the matter is pure speculation and the rule applies, dont invest what you cannot lose, i can lose 10k and sleep like a baby, ive lost an imported GTR before and that stung quite a bit more then this ever will, there have been people who lost all their money because their banks closed or some stocks werent what they really should have been.

But you can't make money without spending money and sometimes you need to take a calculated risk, some people jump at bitlake, ambis, control finance etc but i wouldnt touch those with a 10 foot pole.

I agree with you. As of right now we are earning from them and still have a lot of time before Dec. 2019 comes.You don't need to invest in them but you can hold their coins as the price grew significantly. Rules always apply. Don't invest what you can't afford to lose. Risk is always there and there no such thing as risk free to invest but without risk you're money will not grow.