Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 15, 2013, 05:39:10 AM

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 05:21:45 AM

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 15, 2013, 04:36:12 AM

Quote from: justusranvier on May 15, 2013, 04:23:15 AM

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 04:18:40 AM

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

While slaves being freed, women being able to vote, the end of jim crow laws/open racisim, and other such events may not have made an impact on your life at the time, they were huge events. These changes in law did a lot of good for a lot of people. Are you seriously questioning this fact?

The only reason why politics are so "impossible" today and "no one is worth voting for" is because people like you give up. You just wave the white flag. Are you french?

If you want to complain about the US gov go right ahead. But if you want to do something its called politics. You have to change the system from within. Its not easy. You have to work with people who you don't like or agree with, and compromise. It won't change everything, and you won't get your whole wishlist. Nobody does. But whats your alternative? Show up at the white house with a gun and start blastin. Sit at home and complain on a forum. Good luck changing the world by yourself...

My ultimate point is that while we can point to the government making changes and say that these are substantive, with every action there is an UNequal and opposite reaction. If you think that the ruling class (the ones who the government works for) will simply sacrifice their power because of public opinion, then you need to read some more serious history books. Because we can't force black people to be our slaves anymore, we have to use Chinese and Indian children, who will attach plastic parts together until their lungs shrivel up from chemical fumes. If you go down the list of examples, for every 1 change in public policy there are an accompanying 100 different externalities which aren't mentioned, and which skew the structures of power in favor of those who have always had them and will continue to keep them as long as people subscribe to being governed. That's the whole point of making the changes in the first place. You need to placate the masses and make them think this is their government which they have influence over, otherwise participation in this system will suffer.

Well I have to say for a large part I agree. I hate the two party system with a passion and almost everything about politics in the US. I would also have to agree that the people with money will keep as much power as they can, and occasionally throw a bone to keep us fighting over scraps. This is obvious.

My problem with your attitude is not with these facts. Its with your solution. You offer none. What exactally do you suggest I do with my time? If I want to change the way the world works, what other than being politically active would you offer as a form of action?

Its one thing to complain and tear others thoughts down. Its quite another to build somethig greater. Unless you can do the latter don't do the former.