Quote from: Marina_T on September 06, 2017, 08:53:56 PM

Quote from: amir24 on September 06, 2017, 08:16:26 PM

Quote from: logloss on September 06, 2017, 06:10:22 PM

Quote from: amir24 on September 05, 2017, 09:36:57 PM

Quote from: logloss on September 05, 2017, 04:54:52 PM

Quote from: amir24 on September 03, 2017, 07:10:48 PM

Quote from: Marina_T on September 02, 2017, 09:38:59 PM

Quote from: amir24 on September 01, 2017, 11:52:47 PM

why this project need blockchain and what neuron token do?

This project has same problem as Bowhead health. You not prove that technology even work before trying to use blockchain.
AI chatbot not used in medicine right now because technology not good yet. Please, you must prove to ICO investor that AI chatbot work before taking money.

This project saying: we build project to talk to aliens and now we use blockchain. But we no know if aliens exist!

So far I not give money to this. I also can not find white paper to read about.

Have a look at our demo videos. This all is possible with our technology and it is quite advanced already.

We will soon release a working version of our Selfie2BMI app, you will be able to test for yourself.

Hello, I read white paper (I recommend put on website home page not on token sale page).

I not expert in AI but understand problem like this: we have AI algorithms and algorithm need large data and large computing power to solve problem that human not find easily

I have many question

1) why can average person help with provide large data. average person maybe provide data like calories, walking, heart beat, maybe glucose test. But this very small data and not making many predictions from it. In Radius example - I think giving diary of seizures is not helpful data to cure epilepsy. I see we generate useless data. So I say Selfie2BMI app not very useful. Maybe just for fun but not make business money or help solve medical problem.

We still need private company/hospital/doctor to give data. Genomic test company or brain doctor for Radius. Even blood test like in "robo-profile" you need private lab to do test. Robo-profile/robo-genomics/hematology it look like it take data and make prediction. Nice app but will need I think doctors and medical devices to help patients put data to app. Now you have problem to make partnership with blood lab in every countries, with EMRs in whole world, with genomic companies across world. Very hard to get all data to the patient in doc.ai app.

Summary: nice to say patient "own data", but I think really they "buy data". Patient cant make helpful data on own.
Recommendation: look to Medcredits (MEDX) ICO. They making 100% decentralized platform for patient to make own data. Maybe you partner with MEDX and this solve problem #1.

2) large data storage and computing power: what your plan to store data? iphone not going to store 100TB genomic data. then, how AI algorithm use computing power of iphone. Iphone not strong. Maybe you must make partnership but technology not exist right now for decentralized computing. Golem still take 5-10 year to help doc.ai. Maybe you store data decentralized but so far no iphone app to do this.

3) Legal problems. Doc.ai very new and now making medical recommendation. If patient have heart attack because doc.ai get confused and change patient medications how this work? I think still many years before we have good laws to allow this. So far doc.ai maybe help doctor but medical decision must come from doctor. I think doc.ai have many problems today if it bypass doctor.

Summary: reason 2) + 3) why I say before that technology not work yet. I think doc.ai have good company but I no buy ICO because I think still 5-10 year for doc.ai to make me money Undecided

Recommendation: ICO maybe bad model for funding big complex project. Or maybe bad for small ICO investor like me

4) Neuron token. Who it incentivize? I not understand (maybe this part I am wrong and I need explanation)
Patient - I see they pay money to do many tests and get data from private company (they do this now already if they want genomic test or blood test) then they sell data for neuron token?
Doctor/research - they pay patient in neuron to get the data from patient? so doc.ai hurting research because now they lose money to patient?

Blockchain token important for consensus or trust payment. So what neuron token really do?
No summary/recommendation - maybe explain to me more.

The only thing NEURON and MEDX have in common is that they are doing their ICO at the same time. But that is where the comparison stops. We do not believe that the “average” person who needs healthcare is powerless without the medical corporations. We do not believe that "average" people are unable to collect medical data ourselves nor that this data would be useless. We do not believe that we do not have the right to own our data, that we have to buy it. We do not believe that doctors are not willing to share the decisions about healthcare with their patients. We do not believe that these ideas put us outside of the law, certainly not in the USA. But I will tell you what we do believe. The biological profile of the near-future will be consumer-controlled, AI-powered and data-centric. It will be algorithmic rather than symptomatic, bottom up rather than top down, consumer facing rather than doctor facing, quantitative rather than qualitative.
It would be wrong to think that the Blockchain revolution that is now going on is only about technology, or storage, or about computing power or about consensus mechanisms. These are only means to serve the goal: a new philosophy, a belief system that gives people the tools to empowerment, the guarantee that it cannot be taken from them forever, that it cannot be broken and that nobody can come and shut it down.

I disappointed with answer. I agree overall idea you saying, but you not answer questions. Only talk philosophy.

So easy question: How today I get blood test without #1) doctor prescribe me #2) nurse to take blood with needle and put into tube with potassium oxalate as an anticoagulant and sodium fluoride as a preservative and #3) lab corporation to process blood and give results

How patient create data without medical corporation? How you "give people the tools to empowerment". Everybody poke themself at home with needle and have lab in his house?? I think you dreaming of future but plan not realistic. This simple blood test. What about MRI machine or genomic testing or nuclear medicine test (everybody have radioactive tracer in home??).

Let me explain the magic. You go to wellnessfx.com, order your blood test on your phone. The site will give you an address close to your location where you go in and a friendly phlebotomist takes blood samples while talking to you. When you wake up the day afterwards, the blood values are in your phone with explanation and ranges. The same goes for sequencing your genome, pharmacogenome or microbiome: you go to veritasgenetics.com, receive instructions in the mail, the results also appear in your phone or computer.
There is a world of atoms and a world of bits. We are the bits, you are the atoms. You poke in our arms, we interpret and send you the data. And we both use machines to do this.

Yes, so patient "buy" data from wellnessfx.com. It take 78$ to get basic blood test. App only importing data from corporation. Patient not generating data without help of corporation. Also now patient pay cash for blood test but if they have insurance and doctor prescribe then insurance make much cheaper.

Now step 2: How data go from wellnessfx.com to doc.ai app? Doc.ai have partnership with wellnessfx.com?

Please also explain to me what neuron token do. Who it help? I still no understand deep down the details.

Indeed, the app does not generate data without the corporation that performs the blood test. Importantly, our app give you control of this data, and interprets it for you the way you can understand it easily without the need to go to a doctor. If your doctor is alway accessible to you, if it does not bother you to keep going to the doctor all the time for blood test results then you might not need our app. Our app allows users to get control of their data, of their biological profile more generally, and interprets it in a way that is easily understandable without a need to constantly consult a medical professional.

More details on the role that NRN token plays in the system will be released in the private placement memorandum and the token economics documents that are expected to be published tomorrow.

I like idea of machine learning. I see how patient need to have own data. I see app can gather data from corporation/doctor. I think you have problem with big data storage and big data processing...but this problem you can fix in future.

I think big problem today is you try to replace doctor. This problem have 2 reasons:

Reason 1: Still legal problem. Machine learning algorithm all new. It make mistake and patient get hurt or die. Remember tesla car crash from machine learning failure. This 100% happen. Patient will die and doc.ai have lawsuit and maybe this hurt doc.ai future a lot. Be careful not to hurt patient with too big confidence in algorithm.

Reason 2: Doctor mainly control patient data today. If you say too much you try to replace doctor, doctor will not agree too much work with you. Like we agree, you only import data and you rely on corporation/doctor for data. Doc.ai need many many MANY partnership to gather data. You must be nice to doctor so they allow app to import data.

Solution: Work WITH doctor. Patient see doctor and get answer and then doc.ai see same data and give answer. Maybe 5 years doc.ai have time to learn and then it legal to replace doctor. But will not happen without doctor agreeing to share data. This why I tell you partner with MedCredits (MEDX). They doctors who can help you get data and teach algorithm to work and compare answers with real doctor. They want patient to have data and they help to connect patient to doctor/corporation to generate data.
Now you tell me you have doctor on team...this not same thing. Doc.ai need agreement from 1000s doctor around world to give data. This what Medcredits can help you to do.

Healthcare very complicated. If you make war against doctors and no cooperate with doctors I think you have big problem to make doc.ai success. Good advice? Wink