Quote from: daemonfox on May 16, 2013, 06:56:20 PM

Quote from: MooC Tals on May 16, 2013, 05:43:58 PM

1) There are codes of conduct a company needs to follow with pre-orders
2) Pre-orders are stating a product has been developed.
3) There was no product in the first place

What were they advertising in Oct? What product was near to completion that pre-orders were needed to be placed? Look at the dates

Please before you tell someone their opinions are incorrect broaden yours to allow better understanding. The scam is not over the existence of the product NOW it was its existence then.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

Show me in your first response above where you stated "it was very narrow minded"... because you did not. You plainly stated that I blatantly said someone's opinion was incorrect... you should read and reread more thoroughly before flaming me for something that did not happen.

Quote from: MooC Tals on May 16, 2013, 06:32:04 PM

So my opinion is invalid. The point that BFL tells advertisers that products are almost ready in Oct of 2012 is not true? or the point where BFL has been taking in pre-orders for products that did not exist? or maybe it was something else that you found that I erred in?

Second I did not say your opinion was wrong I said it was very narrow minded. As I tried to broaden yours by feeding relevant factual evidence. You did see that link right?

I also never stated that any of the FACTS you are basing your OPINION on were not true... in fact I applaud you because in reality, all those facts are true... and I do sympathize with some... just not the ones repeatedly crying SCAM! What I did try to relate is this:

The facts about delays, bad announcements about product availability and shipping, bad PR and CRM, the prices doubling and even more shipping delays are all true 100%. That still doesn't equal BFL being a scam... I am sorry but those are all mistakes and miss-steps taken in the creation of cutting edge technology. It happens... if people are uncomfortable with that, they get refunded.

THAT is my opinion, whether you believe it to be valid or not... what is not valid is all those facts ending up with BFL as a scam... sorry just doesn't pass the logic test.

I embolden them. Also I go into detail of how it is a scam. It is the use of pre-orders until the ~~investor~~ customer refuses to wait any longer and demands a refund. That is a 0% interest loan for an average period of 3 to 4 month (PayPal limits time for a resolution process) however people that put it on their CC have to pay if they don't cover the ballance right away. I know you may have missed most of my previous posts here. (you could go back and check) However I will not hold it against you if you choose not to.

Where I have issue is you feel it is not intentional and that is why I suggested broadening your views. Delays are natural however to insinuate that its complete incompetence is also untrue.

BFL Josh/Inaba w/e his name is has been approached by knowledgeable people in the field that do this work for other manufactures and offered to help them with designs and also cautioned that the power figures are somewhat impossible. However it is my opinion that the low prices and the hubris expectations of power consumptions were intentional to prevent competition.

That is my opinion and it maybe a stretch for you to accept. Here is hoping....