Quote from: MooC Tals on May 18, 2013, 11:59:03 AM

Quote from: KS on May 18, 2013, 11:05:59 AM

Quote from: MooC Tals on May 18, 2013, 08:38:53 AM

It's not that far fetched at all, think of it as a brand new shop opening up and they need to create new clients so the mechanic has a grand opening sale and offers cheap at cost oil changes. I have seen many new mechanic shops do this and it works well. Consider it as advertising. It's a good idea as the need for new products comes along the reputation of the company is well enforced through the products durability and the fact their in the hands of those customers already.

I like it.makes sense. As everything else the more they build the cheaper the RnD

It's not far fetched but it's not in the right market for barn sales.

Consider this:

-WHEN do you do barn sales? When you have inventory.
-WHY do you do barn sales? To get rid of inventory.
-HOW do you make money on barn sales? By buying liquidated inventory (i.e. ex-bankrupcy, overstocks, etc) or selling high margin products cheaper (like tire sales).

-Do they have inventory? No.
-Do they want to get rid of said inventory? No, it's a lossleader, not overstock.
-Will they make money on the inventory? No, it's a lossleader.

As Bitcoinorama rightly pointed out, the Mars sale is a way to lock you into buying a Jupiter. It's not to make a profit to fund development, they're pretty much selling at cost already. They'll make their money when you send yours for the preorder.

Bitcoin mining is a niche industry. In niche industries, you don't do barn sales, you sell know-how at a high price. The performance leader sets the price. If you have a low price, you're automatically "less good" and/or suspicious.

You shouldn't mix commodity market techniques and niche markets. They won't work together because of the low volumes. If you did do barn sales, you wouldn't make any money and YOU'd be the one whose inventory gets bought by bankrupcy sharks. It niche markets, you need to be a performance leader.

edit: when I mean they sell at cost, I don't mean it will just cover the BOM. I consider the R&D and other normal company expenses as well.

Your making it sound like it's going out of business. They have questions like what will make money? What do the customers want? Will I make a profit from this? How long can I sell this product or its shelf life?

They're not IN business yet, let's give them that...
The product shelf life is very short.

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They understand that this market the products sold affect the product that have already been sold and in turn also affects the products value before they are sold.

Yes, like the drug market. Your customers will always need more but their old "stuff" is now worthless.

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So the problem here is this. How do I make my company relevant to the market in such a hostile environment? People don't know me, and as a result don't trust me. How do I make and keep making money? If I build 1 prototype it costs the same to me if I sell 100 or 100,000.

You will make 100.000 units a lot cheaper per unit than for 100 units. trust me on that Wink

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Will I be able to sell 100,000? If I'm going to make them and their is a demand how do I push these out in batches or a super release of all at the same time?

You won't sell 100.000 units. This is not a mass market. Avalon has batches of 300, 3 so far, one barely shipped completely. The chips they sell on the side won't make tens of thousands of mining units of the same 60GH/s hashrate.

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I would need to make the first batch small but not to small where its not profitable. I have to do this quickly provided I have the demand to do this. My competition will work against me.

Up to you to find out what the proper price is. Price it too high and it won't sell. You should not be afraid to loose money on the first batch. You make an investment then you get in back over a certain period of time, not all at once. There are always outliers, but best to think in a way that ensures you will succeed. Don't be greedy.

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These products make money literally, I mean if banks where in the business of selling you branches of the bank would it work? thats basically what their doing here. This is another reason these companies like BFL still don't understand that the act of making these products kill currencies like steroids kill weightlifters. However the need is there to be fulfilled, the need is greed.

If it's not BFL, it's Avalon, ASICMINER, AMD, whoever. As long as the BFL's share their products, it's not a problem. Everyone will always try to outdo their neighbor anyway.

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So I would first register names by making a poll to see if there is demand.

Sure, why not?

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Then use FPGA technology for litecoin as a stepping stone to gain relevancy in the market. They need a gimmick a flagship product that will generate revenue for other products.

LTC is another market, you won't get relevance in BTC for making LTC FPGA's. You also don't need to make products that loose money but would be supported by your money making flagship product. Sorry to say, but this is a bit silly. Not a mass market.

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When my name is more out there I can quickly push products out in batches and adjust prices according to profitability and need of the consumer.

If you don't pay for batch one out of your pocket, you will always have a delay between batches (months, in BTC products). Or you make small batches and kill your margin (or make your products too expensive).

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Barn sales are products that are discounted and discontinued where the value of the product is reducing and has already been advertised and well known. Even the brand name is not even required at times. As seen on TV shit and stuff like that.

Current BTC miners will quickly be on barn sales when the ASICs will finally be deployed en masse, so your window of opportunity to sell anything is very short right now.

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They will have a tough time entering but I feel they can learn from others on how not to do it.

Let's hope so... but they still don't seem to have their business-side setup right (ATM).

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Oil changes is a bad analogy due to the oil change value would not affect future oil changes but the goal would be customer awareness that they exist. That is their needed goal here for now.

Your phrasing is slippery, but maybe you could use the example of a kind of ICT product instead. Computers, smartphones, whatnot. each new generation chips away at the value of the previous one.

Anyway, you seem to want their products and want to find a way to reassure/convince yourself they will succeed. That means you are already actively ignoring the little voice of caution in your head. That's what desire/greed will do to you, so be careful Wink

Cheers .