Quote from: HCP on September 27, 2017, 04:36:38 AM

No, I just got tired of trying to explain things that you didn't seem to be comprehending.

You keep inventing more and more convoluted scenarios to try and do "end-runs" around logic and reason... like how a supposed attacker has full access to my entire Bitcoin transaction history and knowledge of every single one of my addresses... so they'd be able to determine whether or not passphrases being provided are "real". Which, of course, is defeated simply by running any cold-storage funding transactions through a mixer etc. and using my "decoy" wallet for day to day transactions.

In the same scenario using your system... exactly the same thing would happen... except, if they've found a bunch of encrypted files and ask for the password, you have no defense. They can see the files, they know they exist, they know there are passwords that decrypt them and will know instantly whether the password you give is correct. With a hardware wallet using a passphrase, there is NO evidence that the wallet exists... because it doesn't until you enter the passphrase.

You are dumb. And rightly so.
You said they found a bunch of encrypted files and ask for the password.
Hey man, I don't necessarily really need to make it so obvious to them that the file stores the private keys, do I?
To claim they will know an encrypted file will contain the private keys is pure dumb speculation.
The only way they will know a file contains private keys is if I tell them "Hey, those files contain private keys."
You are making your argument based on dumbness and that's why I keep calling you names.
The level of discretion that hardware wallet provides can also be attained with my method too, can't you even see?
Either you are dumb by not getting it, or you are just playing dumb.

And this is what you don't seem to want to admit... there is NO 100% secure method of securing your stuff. I admit that hardware wallets are not perfect... there are still attack vectors... just like with your system... but a hardware wallet helps minimise these and provides, in my opinion, a number of benefits that your system doesn't.

You even claimed at one point that your method is "unhackable" Roll Eyes

Quote from: Dorky on August 03, 2017, 06:18:53 AM

Hard to hack? My approach is not even hackable.

Then conceded that nothing is safe:

Quote from: Dorky on August 09, 2017, 02:35:42 PM

Well, on 2nd thought, I guess nothing is safe. Or else there would be no Matthew 6:19-21.

And then denied that you conceded that point...

Quote from: Dorky on August 11, 2017, 02:29:11 PM

Quote from: HCP on August 11, 2017, 07:51:34 AM

I just don't think it is as secure as you believe it to be (a point you eventually conceded)

I never conceded. You are talking nonsense. My method is better than both hardware and paper wallets combined for cold storage.

The reason why I said my approach is not even hackable is because ---> the private keys are generated offline and strongly encrypted offline.
N-O-B-O-D-Y even know they exists, let alone hack them.
And if they are found by some hackers, they wouldn't even know the file contains private keys.
There are myriads of stuff that are encrypted (ebooks, company documents, etc) that are simply not private keys.
And unless you know the password to access the file, you wouldn't even know what the hell is contained inside the file.
And yet you keep claiming the hackers will find the file and ask for the password.
I say, bullshit to you.

You then descended into just calling every one of my points "Bullshit"... calling me an idiot, dumb nut, silly and a low life and accused me of just being a trouble maker

Quote from: Dorky on August 11, 2017, 02:29:11 PM

That's not even the point, you silly.
Your argument is bullshit.

You are clearly a troublemaker.
You will be a scum that will appear out of nowhere and say "No, a ball is circular."

That's not even the point, you silly.

You are clearly a very very stupid person.
You are a bullshit.

For that, I say you are a bullshit.

Bullshit.
...you dumb nut.

Bullshit.
For this, I say you are a bullshit.

I don't mind if you are a smart person. In fact, I would be very happy if you are smarter than I am. At least I can learn from you.
But if you are a stupid jackass pretending to be some smart ass, then I don't wish to be troubled by a lowlife such as you.

Personal attacks aside, that's not how you "win" a debate...

You are indeed a bullshit. I continue to stand by that.

Then you started down the whole "hardware wallets are more inconvenient because you have to remember a passphrase AND a PIN" path... I guess I should have just pointed out at the time that with your setup you potentially need to remember a whole bunch of extra stuff as well, like your email account+password where you stored your backup... or your online storage account+password where you stored your backup... or where you put that CD with the backup data on it... because that is just as "difficult" and "inconvenient" as remembering a 4-8 digit PIN Roll Eyes

Here's why you are a bullshit (and never short of it).
Yes, my method still needs to remember a number of things such as online storage account+password, etc, but they are definitely cannot be compared to remembering a PIN.
Because as you and I know it, using hardware wallet requires you to remember the seeds, passphrases and PIN.
You use your hardware wallet; you are obligated to remember the seeds, passphrases, PIN, where you store your seeds, where you store your passphrases, etc.
To claim you only need to remember the PIN says you are bullshit.
To imply that writing the seeds and passphrases down a piece of paper and slip it between the pages of a book is safer (!) is bullshit.

And now you also seem to think that for some reason hardware wallet users are forever tied to hardware wallets:

Quote from: Dorky on September 27, 2017, 03:16:27 AM

With a hardware wallet, the owner will have to keep buying a new one if the previous one is lost. HCP argued that's not the case, but of course if the owner wishes to continue using BTC for cold storage plus spending, he has no choice but to spend for a new hardware wallet.

Which is just plain wrong...

If I lose my hardware wallet... I can simply take my seed backup and generate a paper wallet or import it into a software wallet or import it into a web wallet should the need arise... or simply do nothing and continue using those addresses as cold storage knowing that I still have access to all my coins should I so require in the future.

What a lie.
What a joke.
Take your pick.
If you intend to make it cold storage and not spend it, you might as well go for my method.
The only reason why you use hardware wallet is so that you can spend your BTC securely.
Now you claim you can simply do nothing.
Why are you being so intellectually dishonest?
The moment you need to spend, you will be compelled to buy a new hardware wallet.
Software wallet?
Web wallet?
What a lie + joke.
Software wallet and web wallet are far less secure than hardware wallet, and yet here you imply they are good alternatives in case of screw up.
Indeed you are a bullshit.

TL;DR:
I prefer hardware wallets as they offer all the benefits of cold storage and provide added security for hot wallet/day to day spending in a handy, convenient, portable package that still provides me complete control of my private keys, at a relatively reasonable price for anyone with modest/substantial amounts invested in cryptocurrency.

Dorky prefers his digital version of paper wallets as he believes it provides the benefits of cold storage with the best security at near to zero cost, without some of the issues associated with paper wallets (like susceptibility to loss/damage/theft) while still maintaining control of private keys.

Neither method is 100% secure.

You said it here yourself.... for hot wallet/day to day spending.
And yet you said you can choose to do nothing if you lose your hardware wallet.
Pray tell, how are you going to spend your BTC then?
Use software wallet or web wallet?
Hey, we can start a debate on how insecure are software wallet and web wallet, if you want to.

I already said it many times before.
If you use hardware wallet, you don't control your private keys.
You only control the seeds + passphrases that will generate the private keys.
Can you even see the difference?
No they are not reasonable price compare to my method that is way much cheaper with direct control.
Your control of private keys through the seeds and passphrases are indirect control, not direct control.
It is much like going from Point A to Point B, and from Point B to Point C (instead of from Point A to Point C directly).
The replacement cost of hardware wallet is both expensive and unnecessary.

You are nothing but bullshit.

I have a very strong suspicion that HCP doesn't understand the meaning and nature of "strongly encrypted private keys".

A strongly encrypted private key simply means an anonymous file that is strongly encrypted.
To claim that an anonymous file contains private keys is bullshit.
No, that is wrong.
The anonymous file contains no private keys.
It contains only scanned copies of personal identification and driving license.
The fact is, only you know what is contained in that anonymous file.
Anyone saying the hacker will know what the file contains, is bullshit beyond logic.

TL;DR
You are selling hardware wallet.
I am not selling anything but simply a DIY method that anyone can do with better control and security at much cheaper price.

Only those who are irresponsible to themselves will try to transfer such responsibility to a 3rd-party by using hardware wallet.