Quote from: vandan on May 29, 2013, 12:03:31 AM

Quote from: Pichu on May 26, 2013, 04:14:31 AM

Quote from: Wilderness on May 26, 2013, 02:34:29 AM

just about to order some rampage, but wondering what pre-workout would you recommend to use with it?
cheers

Rampage is an obvious scam, you need to boost testosterone by 100%+ to see even minimal gains. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's healthy either.

Of course, you can feel free to post peer-reviewed studies that prove that either a gain in 20-30% of "natural" testosterone increasese amount of muscle mass or gym performance OR a study showing your rampage to increase free testosterone by any relevant amount.

Edit: For pre-workout caffeine is the GOAT.

Pichu, I'm sorry you feel that way. At the risk of sounding too harsh I'm not sure if you have a very good grasp of the endocrine system and supplementation.

Protodiascin, which is the main active ingredient in Rampage, has been well proven to increase LH/testosterone/dhea levels substantially. You will notice on our bottle an "Aust L" number which is an Australian government certified (TGA) approval of the claims we have made on the label. To attain and Aust L number you must have clinical/medical proof that your product will do what it claims on the label at the dose recommended on the label. Australia is well know for it's extremely strict controls of labeling and marketing.

We have been working with elite athletes and body builders for nearly 20 years and our research, blood work and straight out trial and error have proven to us the extreme value of naturally elevating testosterone levels.

As for caffeine as a pre-workout supplement, well, it's probably one of the worst things you could possibly take before physical exertion. Caffeine is merely a CNS (Central Nervous System Stimulant) that makes you for want of a better word "high". The mental buzz you get from caffeine that makes you feel like training is actually stopping you from growing. A dose of just 100mg of caffeine is enough to stop you from growing and repairing lean muscle tissue for 24hrs. At a dose of 100mg or higher caffeine will release large amounts of cortisol into the bloodstream. Cortisol is the catabolic(breaks down muscle tissue) hormone meaning the opposite of anabolic (build muscle tissue).

Caffeine has also been proven to stop creatine from working 100%. That means creatine has NO effect when taken with caffeine. It is also a vasoconstrictor which would also counteract any nitric oxide boosters which essentially vasodilate. One of the main reasons you get an elevated heart rate after consuming caffeine is that the blood vessels to the heart muscle have been constricted to the point where the heart is desperately trying to beat itself some more blood. Not an ideal to be in for any type of training.

I think I will leave it there as I would hate to turn this thread into a technical bore. I simply started this thread to offer the highest class supplements to the bitcoin community.

Pichu, if you would like to talk super technical I would would be happy to discuss anything you like via pm.

Great reply. I'd really prefer an open discussion, but I do agree that this is not the place for it. I'll PM you. Would also like some links to those studies, the only one I could find were done on primates and rats. Oh, and it's protodioscin by the way.