Quote from: myrkul on May 28, 2013, 06:36:10 PM

Quote from: Hawker on May 28, 2013, 06:19:53 PM

Quote from: myrkul on May 28, 2013, 06:11:30 PM

Quote from: Hawker on May 28, 2013, 06:00:18 PM

Quote from: myrkul on May 28, 2013, 05:58:31 PM

Quote from: Hawker on May 28, 2013, 05:46:26 PM

We do know that our modern ideas of taxation based on consent, individual freedom and so on evolved between the War of the Roses and the English Civil War.

Now I think you're using a funny definition of "consent." By definition, taxation applies even to those who do not consent, else it wouldn't be taxation.

I think you are being a pompous ass. You look at the ideology of people that lived in the 1640s, say "Oh I know better now" and act superior.

Get over yourself already.

Tsk, name calling? Really? I thought better of you, Hawker.

Besides, isn't this like saying "People who support the Heliocentric model of the solar system are pompous asses for saying they know better now than those who thought the Earth was the center of the universe."?

C'mon, man, science is all about discarding flawed premises as soon as they are found to be flawed, not holding onto them because people 500 years ago thought they were cool.

Politics is not science. 1000 years ago, slavery was fine and abortion a huge evil. Now its the opposite. That means morality changed - it doesn't mean that we are superior beings to those that were alive back then.

Really? I'll ask a black man if he thinks today's society is superior to the one in the 1850s, see what he thinks. I'll let you know. (And yes, politics is a science.)

Quote from: Hawker on May 28, 2013, 06:19:53 PM

You are claiming that you are more moral or more clever than people who came before you because your ideas are more up to date than their ideas is pompous. I'd love not to mention it, really. But you do seem to want to lord it over the people who died for the "illusion of freedom" just because you don't agree with what they saw as freedom centuries ago.

No, I want to build a society based on superior understanding of human nature, as opposed to clinging to old, fallacious traditions. You defending democracy this way is like defending slavery by saying "It was good enough for them."

Oh ffs. Politics is not Political Science. Providing a link to a political science page doesn't make politics a science. If you want a forum where topics are limited to topics of a political science curriculum and posts use that kind of methodology, apply to the mods for a new forum. It will be a very quiet forum!

Ideas evolve. Regardless of what you want to achieve, acting superior to people who died centuries ago because you "know" what freedom is while they only knew the "illusion of freedom" is ridiculous.