Quote from: BitChick on May 29, 2013, 02:50:27 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 29, 2013, 03:23:43 AM

Quote from: BitChick on May 29, 2013, 03:11:30 AM

Quote from: Rassah on May 29, 2013, 02:10:29 AM

Quote from: Tekkna on May 29, 2013, 01:53:51 AM

Considering all athiests are amoral, I am surprised at the many times they call God immoral.

Why do you think atheists are immoral? Since they call god immoral, it would suggest that they do understand what is moral and what is immoral, even to the point that they believe some of the actions that are attributed to god or some of his commandments are immoral. Atheists are more moral than god.

This is an honest question I have had. Where do atheists get their moral compass from? Is it based on society around them? Do the laws of the land dictate what is moral? Can they change their minds if they feel like it? Society used to call many things immoral that are now called moral so is it based on the what others say is right or wrong? Or do they have a "conscience" that tells them what is right and wrong? If so, where does that conscience come from?

Serious question - Do you mean to say that you have no idea what is right and what is wrong without God to tell you?

If you picked up a puppy you found on the side of the road that had a broken leg would you:

1) Take it to the closest animal hospital/shelter for treatment and adoption.

2) Throw it as far into the woods as you can so it doesn't stink up the road.

3) Stand there praying for a sign for what to do because you have no moral compass without God.

Do I have no idea what right or wrong is without God?

Personally, I do think that God or more precisely, the Holy Spirit (or our "conscience" as some people call Him) does speak to us and tell us what "right and wrong" is. Where does our sense of compassion come from? Most would say from parents or society or it has "evolved" but I believe God puts that in our hearts and speaks to us. Also, I use the Bible as my moral compass as well when my own selfish desires get in the way of what really is the right thing to do. The Bible says "There is a way that seems right to a man but it leads to death." That is why I need to read the Bible and make sure I am not just making up my own ideas of what right an wrong are. The more I listen to Him, the more compassionate I can become. The more loving I can be. The more I can care about others, regardless of their beliefs, be it atheist, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. I don't have to agree with people that think differently than I do, but I need to love them and try to show them that God loves them too. The difficulty is that in "loving" them, I often feel a compelling sense of showing them that they are on a destructive path.

Let's imagine this. Hundreds of people are on the top of plateau with a huge cliff all around. They are all blindfolded. However, you are not. The people are walking towards the edge of the cliff. Do you just let them walk off to their death or would you try to stop them from going over the edge? Probably the best thing to do would be to try and convince them that they are wearing a blindfold! But in a strange way many don't even realize they have one on at all and they do not listen, or even argue with you. You care deeply about them so you get more and more intense. Maybe one or two take off their blindfold and then see that they almost plunged to their death without even realizing it.

This is how it feels as a Christian. We believe God has miraculously helped us "see" (we once were blind but now we see). Out of compassion for those that cannot see we try desperately to get others to see the truth (sometimes people who say they are Christians do not do this in a loving or compassionate way I admit! This angers me more than anything too BTW! Also, Jesus got more angry at people like this too than any others) So it is a problem for sure. How to love without offending. How to care without coming across as pushy, arrogant? Should we just let others choose their own path without doing anything at all? It seems that is what most people want us to do. "Live and let live." But is that the "moral" thing? Is that the right thing?

I can see your argument and can agree that some people need assistance in doing the right thing. All religions not just Christianity have served this purpose well. "If God didn't exhist it would be necessary to invent him."

Christians have gone to war against differing religions for centuries to convert them or wipe them out. Historically Christianity is the least tolerant religion and the most oppressive. I really believe the United States is oppressive and militaristic because the influence of Christianity is so strong. I don't see the morality influence of Christianity as being helpful enough to outweigh the negative.