Quote from: TheSwede75 on June 06, 2013, 05:54:04 PM

Quote from: Biomech on June 06, 2013, 05:46:53 PM

Quote from: mxmz.in on June 06, 2013, 05:21:53 PM

What engineering talent BFL had/has? Is it comparable to Orsoc's?
How does going strait to production sound, can some hardware expert enlighten me please?

I am not an expert, however I know something of the process.

First off, there seems to be a "feel" in the bitcoin community that ASIC's are magical, new, crazy machines. They are not. What's new is adapting them to this specific application.

So, yeah, the ASIC layout should be almost the same as the FPGA layout. Using FPGA's to prototype is nothing new either.

Also, given that ASIC chips are used in a wide variety of things, they don't have to reinvent the wheel or even do a full mask. There might be some technological gains from doing this from the ground up, but for this sort of application (essentially doing one calculation over and over again) the gain is severely outweighed by the cost. Basically the engineering work is already done aside from the embedded application. Making the mask is expensive, not groundbreaking.

ORSoC already does 28nm ASIC chips. They just need the current team to do the last couple of layers over an existing design. This is not trivial, but as Yifu has already demonstrated, it's within the knowledge and capabilities of talented amateurs. ORSoC is not an amateur group.

The biggest likely hangup isn't adapting the design, it's getting it to their fabricator on time, and hoping that the fab doesn't stick their thumbs up their asses. I have not read daggateo's report yet, but I have little doubt about KNC and ORSoC being able to engineer the thing and going to fab in the timeline they are aiming for. I do have some doubts about a major fab giving them the priority they need. But again, they are an established company and therefore have more clout than most of the people currently doing bitcoin ASIC miners. I would say a month past their target is reasonable, two months even would be ok. It is highly unlikely that much will have changed by then, given the track record of the other players. The Avalon chips are about the only wildcard in that. I can't see BFL getting up to steam that fast, if ever, and the rest of the builders that I am aware of are either on a similar schedule or are awaiting the Avalon chips.

While as KS keeps pointing out, KNC is NOT ORSoC, they are nevertheless directly affiliated and do have some skin in the game, even if only reputation. But rep means a lot.

I am unfortunately not able to order at this time myself, but if I were I'd take this gamble. And I am a fairly conservative man.

I feel that this seems like a fairly accurate description of the risk factors. I honestly feel that for my order customs and tax might be the largest factor that will play into the profit/risk.

Having never ordered high value electronic components with shipping from Sweden/EU to the US before I just hope DHL knows what they are doing and will provide the necessary information quickly.

Eh. I've ordered stuff from overseas before. Usually there is some customs fees involved, almost always handled by the shipper as part of their fees. I've never had it be a problem. For interstate commerce there have been multiple cases going all the way back to pre War Between the States cases stating that sales taxes cannot be assessed unless the purchase is made in state. States do keep trying to get around that, but are rarely successful for more than a minute before getting slapped down. Still, at worst you'd be looking at an additional six or seven percent. I think the EU guys have a tougher go with this one, as they all do VAT, which is a really outrageous tax scheme. Luckily our Congresscritters so far haven't been bright enough to come out with anything as blatantly confiscatory as that and get away with it.