Quote from: Bestcoin-fan on November 05, 2017, 12:41:53 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on November 05, 2017, 11:44:55 AM

Quote from: Bestcoin-fan on November 04, 2017, 04:15:22 PM

2mb blocks might be discussed (though now, after the Segwit activation they are even more disputable), but they must NOT be forcefully imposed!!

..
It's not "forcefully imposed" when you freely choose to rely on someone to do something for you and then you decide you don't like what they're doing. No one is putting a gun to your head and "forcing" you to keep relying on these miners you clearly disagree with. See it for what it actually is. The people you disagree with are possibly leaving. That's not a forceful imposition. That's them leaving you alone to do what you want. If the fork is successful, you're free to have a 1mb base and 3mb witness blocksize with no one around to challenge it.

So instead of complaining about it, you can just as easily rely on some different people to do that exact same job in the way you want them to do it. There will definitely still be miners who don't agree with 2x, so just rely on their proof of work instead. You get what you want, the 2x supporters get what they want.

Or, you could stop relying on other people to do something for you altogether. You could do that job yourself and start mining. After all, you did just say:

Quote from: Bestcoin-fan on November 05, 2017, 06:05:52 AM

You should not parasitize hoping that someone would perform hard, dirty work instead of you.

You must help, you SHOULD do yourself what you CAN do yourself.

So either start mining already, or just stick with the miners you do agree with if you don't want to mine yourself. Everyone has the freedom to chose which chain they want to interact on. All you have to do is run your preferred code.

They invested in the hardware, which means they get to decide how they use it. You didn't invest in the hardware, so you don't get to decide how they use theirs. Clearly no one can forcefully impose anything, otherwise you'd be able to enforce your will on them to do what you want and there would be no forks. So you can't impose anything on them and they can't impose anything on you. Again, they're leaving you alone, you're free from their supposed tyranny soon. What's with the constant bitching about it?

You have a very crafty position.

You keep distorting the facts all the time, portraying free will where there is really absolutely no freedom of choice.

For example, personally, I would very much like to be an independent miner, but I just cannot afford to buy the necessary equipment.

Therefore, although formally you are supposedly right, but in reality - no, in no case.

All participants in bitcoin have just enough control and freedom of choice, so that no one entity is in overall control.

There is no distortion in what I've said. If currently stated intentions prove to be accurate, you'll still have roughly 15% of the current network's hashrate with which to continue building the blockchain and prove that your vision of Bitcoin provides the greatest incentive for all participants. You might get even more than 15% as crunch time draws near and some miners reconsider their stance. None of this is set in stone. You will absolutely, 100% guaranteed have the option of continuing to use Bitcoin as it presently exists in it's 1mb base and 3mb witness space ruleset. There is undeniable freedom of choice in that. Having "no freedom of choice" is entirely a product of your imagination.

If you're right and your vision of 1mb base and 3mb witness space does result in the most economic activity and best financial incentive to secure your chain, the other ~85% (or less) of miners who currently think a 2mb base blocksize is a good idea will be proven sorely wrong. They'll come back to your chain and they'll be far more receptive to your way of seeing things.

It's entirely up to you and the rest of the participants in this economy to prove where the consensus really lies. That's not a "crafty position", that's the reality of it.

The real distortion is spreading this myth that "hostile takeovers", "power grabs", "benevolent dictators" and "forced impositions" are things that actually happen in Bitcoin. They don't. No one has that much power and that's the way it should be.