Quote from: mpshop on November 03, 2017, 05:20:35 AM

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Before investing in any ICO first do some research on ICO in your case for example, see this:

Quote from: mrsaint on November 05, 2017, 04:51:59 PM

Quote from: Kakumei on November 05, 2017, 04:38:05 PM

We are not an open source company and never intended to be one. We are also not listed on GitHub (not sure who's profile that is, but it isn't ours).

Right. You do realize that this profile, which is not yours, lists two users.

https://github.com/orgs/utrustdev/people

* Fernando Mendes https://github.com/fribmendes
* Miguel Palhas https://github.com/naps62

So I assume these two profiles must also be fake and not really yours then? Since both are members of your team... https://utrust.io/team

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We are also not using a smart contract to collect funds because that isn't possible when you also want to accept Bitcoin (which we do). Smart contracts are only used in projects that only accept Ethereum as a contribution and automatically send tokens back. For several reasons (Bitcoin, KYC, ...) that is impossible to achieve right now.

You preferred the option to accept Bitcoin over the transparency achieved through a smart contract? Curious.

Thanks for stopping by though. Do you mind sharing some more input about some other aspects?

* Why is nobody of the team, including the CEO, a director of utrust?
* Why did you choose a debt collector to do the kyc process?
* Why did you change the terms between the ICO and the pre-ICO, and what can people who participated in the pre-ICO do to access their tokens without agreeing on the new terms?

Thanks in advance.

Quote from: Rigorous on November 05, 2017, 04:55:26 PM

Quote from: Kakumei on November 05, 2017, 04:38:05 PM

We are not an open source company and never intended to be one. We are also not listed on GitHub (not sure who's profile that is, but it isn't ours). We are also not using a smart contract to collect funds because that isn't possible when you also want to accept Bitcoin (which we do). Smart contracts are only used in projects that only accept Ethereum as a contribution and automatically send tokens back. For several reasons (Bitcoin, KYC, ...) that is impossible to achieve right now.

Hope this helps!

Pretty sure that is Utrust's repository though. Maybe not officially, but it is subscribed to by Fernando Mendes and Miguel Palhas.

https://github.com/fribmendes
https://github.com/naps62

Quote from: Kakumei on November 05, 2017, 05:07:01 PM

Quote from: mrsaint on November 05, 2017, 04:51:59 PM

Quote from: Kakumei on November 05, 2017, 04:38:05 PM

We are not an open source company and never intended to be one. We are also not listed on GitHub (not sure who's profile that is, but it isn't ours).

Right. You do realize that this profile, which is not yours, lists two users.

https://github.com/orgs/utrustdev/people

* Fernando Mendes https://github.com/fribmendes
* Miguel Palhas https://github.com/naps62

So I assume these two profiles must also be fake and not really yours then? Since both are members of your team... https://utrust.io/team

You do realise that our company has 15 engineers, not two, and if two of them signed up for something it doesn't mean this is the company profile we're using. Plus, even if we were using GitHub, the repositories would be private and not open to the public. You don't go to GitHub to lookup the source code of Windows either!

Quote from: mrsaint on November 05, 2017, 04:51:59 PM

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We are also not using a smart contract to collect funds because that isn't possible when you also want to accept Bitcoin (which we do). Smart contracts are only used in projects that only accept Ethereum as a contribution and automatically send tokens back. For several reasons (Bitcoin, KYC, ...) that is impossible to achieve right now.

You preferred the option to accept Bitcoin over the transparency achieved through a smart contract? Curious.

Quote from: mrsaint on November 05, 2017, 04:51:59 PM

Thanks for stopping by though. Do you mind sharing some more input about some other aspects?

* Why is nobody of the team, including the CEO, a director of utrust?
* Why did you choose a debt collector to do the kyc process?
* Why did you change the terms between the ICO and the pre-ICO, and what can people who participated in the pre-ICO access their tokens without agreeing on the new terms?

Thanks in advance.

Your questions are very quickly answered.

Simple: You need a permanent resident living in Switzerland to open the company type we chose. Just because there is only one director now, doesn't mean there is only ever going to be one. Our legal, financial arms and place of incorporation are in Switzerland (UTRUST Switzerland AG). Our operational branch (Engineering/UX/...) is in Portugal. More directors will be added in due time.
First of all, they are not a dept-collecting company. They're a group that offer a variety of services, including debt collecting in some countries and compliance that we are contracting. There are very few KYC companies in the world that are FINMA approved, they are one of them.
We are allowed to change the terms within certain boundaries at any given time, just like every other company in the world. Particularly when it comes to changing regulation, which in our case required us to enforce KYC on all participants, including pre-ICO ones. Naturally, this is not something we want to do as it costs money and is a hurdle/hassle for everybody. However, since we are a fully compliant ICO, we comply to the current law and regulations, and will continue to do so.

Rest assured that we are actively looking into adding more countries (as we announced in our last email) and will also continue to do so.

Hope this helps!

Quote from: mrsaint on November 05, 2017, 05:36:43 PM

Quote from: Kakumei on November 05, 2017, 05:07:01 PM

You do realise that our company has 15 engineers, not two, and if two of them signed up for something it doesn't mean this is the company profile we're using. Plus, even if we were using GitHub, the repositories would be private and not open to the public. You don't go to GitHub to lookup the source code of Windows either!

My apology, but you said that this Github profile was not yours. If one or even two employees of your company create a profile with your company's name, then it stands to reason to assume that this is your profile. Curious to see the new list of your engineers... seems you have expanded, because on your team page I only count 8 engineers.

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Simple: You need a permanent resident living in Switzerland to open the company type we chose. Just because there is only one director now, doesn't mean there is only ever going to be one. Our legal, financial arms and place of incorporation are in Switzerland (UTRUST Switzerland AG). Our operational branch (Engineering/UX/...) is in Portugal. More directors will be added in due time.

That doesn't make any sense (I live in Switzerland and I know a bit about how to form a company). Yes, you may choose one trustee or person who is a Swiss resident (yes, even one with a questonable background), but that doesn't explain why nobody of the actual team has been named a director. Why only in "due time"? There is no process involved in adding a director when the company is formed.

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First of all, they are not a dept-collecting company. They're a group that offer a variety of services, including debt collecting in some countries and compliance that we are contracting. There are very few KYC companies in the world that are FINMA approved, they are one of them.

Yes, of course they are a debt-collecting company. You can pretty-talk them as much as you want, but anyone in Switzerland knows (either from first-hand experience or from the frequent news coverage) who Intrum Justita is. They may have recently added KYC service, because they licensed IDnow eSign, but they are certainly not the only one offering that service - and it's not Instrum Justita who is FINMA approved, as you say, but it is the IDnow eSign service (https://www.idnow.de/) if at all.

We are allowed to change the terms within certain boundaries at any given time, just like every other company in the world. Particularly when it comes to changing regulation, which in our case required us to enforce KYC on all participants, including pre-ICO ones. Naturally, this is not something we want to do as it costs money and is a hurdle/hassle for everybody. However, since we are a fully compliant ICO, we comply to the current law and regulations, and will continue to do so.

Again, what you are saying is untrue. You say yourself, within certain boundaries, but nothing about your changes is within boundaries. These are two completely different terms. In this case, just like every other company, as you say, you would have had to at least offer any pre-ICO token owner the option to return the tokens. For example, you say now that I must not be a politically exposed person (PEP). But what if I am? I cannot agree to your new terms then or I would have to lie. But I do have tokens from the pre-ICO, where you made no such conditions. And I most certainly don't want my personal information to be shared with Instrum Justita - under no circumstance. The terms are so fundamentally different that it makes my head ache and I seriously question whether you're as transparent and professional as you like us to believe. Don't believe me? Compare them yourself:

Before https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/utrust/UTRUST-terms-of-use.pdf
Now https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/utrust/toc-participants/en/UTRUST-toc-participants-en-2017-11-02.pdf (interesting how you call the new terms V.01 - what version was the previous terms then? V.00?)

Quote from: Yury1 on November 05, 2017, 07:21:16 PM

Developers of UTRUST want to deceive everyone! Demand your money back.

This is a shady project like so many ICOs that have here in the forum, in the next few times be very careful with people who say: "this is a serious project, I will invest", these people do not do any research on ICO just stay encourage others to invest in the ICO scam