Quote from: MoonShadow on June 08, 2013, 04:26:27 AM

Quote from: ktttn on June 08, 2013, 03:55:39 AM

I aspire to be a bot of some kind in the future.
Rights are funny, in that your decision to destroy yourself affects others- they rightfully have a say, don't they?

They may have a say, (the right to express an opinon on the matter) but there can only be one person who "owns" me. I'm the decider. How my decision about me affects others is secondary at best.

In short, no.

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It is after all your decision to respect their right.

My decisions to respect their rights also considers what I consider to be rights. As long as I'm not trying to harm them, my decision to harm myself or my own property has no effect upon their rights.

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Labor is not an object. It is an effect on objects. The attempt to commodify labor commodifies laborers instead.

Labor is time. Nothing more, nothing less.

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No argument? Neat.

I've already presented many arguments that you have simply ignored. Why waste my time, when you aren't really trying? I'm not at all obligated to convince you of anything, It's you that is trying to convince me, remember?

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I think pretty highly of myself in general- its unfortunate for me that youv'e committed to the reverse standpoint.

This doesn't parse. Do you think I have a poor self-image?

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I can submit that slavery is involuntary after an examination of the term voluneer. Someone self employed might be a volunteer, someone who works for free is also a volunteer.
An office worker might not be a volunteer, anyone with hardly another choice about what they do certainly cannot be a vollunteer.

If they have the choice to quit without being thrown into some kind of debtors' prison, it's not slavery no matter what the conditions may be.

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We have slave vs volunteer, where do you see a real middle ground?

There really isn't a middle ground. Either labor is voluntary or involuntary.

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Finally it is my opinion that the human slave trade, in the most objectionable sense, provides the basis, the base price, for which the conditions, wages and finally salary of more and more priveleged slaves, or employees are determined.
Its a pretty solid opinion, if you ask me, doesnt need too many citations to have a useful and revealing streak of truth to it.

It needs at least one verifiable, objective, fact. A subjective opinoin never qualifies. Are you a liberal arts major?

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After all, most arguments are about opinions.

No, they are not. Argumetns are about objective facts put inot a hypothesis about the causes and effects of those facts. Nothing less is an argument. You might as well be blabering about how you 'feel' about things.

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Now- about the state enforcement of rights to ownership of slaves... Hmm.

More word salad.

I feel you're just being contradictory. Debtors prison? Honestly... I'm out of touch but... seriously, yo.
Labor, rather Toil to put it more accurately, is more than just time in my opinion.
Also, the influence of your community is not so easily ignored. You are not an island. You owe your support system mutual support. Shoulders of giants..
I'm convincing you that capitalism and anarchism are not compatable, and that capitalism requires some slavery. We seem to be agreeing more and more.
I think your image of me and my values is a bit lacking, not your image of yourself.
Also, also, look up Socrates. Now, there's an arguing fellow!
Edit: Abe Lincoln wouldn't have called that 'word salad'.