Quote from: wetlight on November 15, 2017, 04:09:50 AM

Cuidado com algumas ICOs, esse cara aqui levantou algumas dúvidas interessantes sobre o projeto!

Essa postagem aqui, feita em inglês (postagem número 201 do Ann original) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2348435.new#new
diz o seguinte: (tradução livre do Google translate)!

Honestamente, eu concordo com Mark sobre o todo, há muitos redflags e o cheiro de fraude está vazando em todos os lugares.
Em primeiro lugar, por causa dos investidores, a Envion deve demonstrar imediatamente que eles são uma empresa real. Como fazer isso?
Forneça um endereço legal e, em especial, o endereço do whareouse, para que eles possam convidar clientes potenciais para fazer uma turnê.
Faça vídeos e fotos da equipe trabalhando, vídeos e fotos de pessoas que realmente trabalham no recipiente, não entrevistas falsas de Matthias falando com uma tela verde que descreve o centro financeiro de Fankfurt.
Segundo: por que a empresa f ** k seroius como a Envion mantém os proprietários da empresa em sombras? Você sabe por que a Envion está desistindo dos nomes dos membros da equipe? Porque eles não terão responsabilidade penal se tudo der errado.
Terceiro: se o chamado CTO Matthias é metade do que ele afirma ser (investindo 300ml em energia solar) por que ele deveria precisar de pequenos investidores aleatórios de bitcointalk. Um homem de seu calibre, com um forte cenário financeiro, tem, com certeza, vínculos com o centro financeiro alemão e não precisa de 1000 pessoas investindo 2-3k em sua empresa.
A Envion quer coletar dinheiro de tantas pessoas quanto possível porque as pessoas que investem 2-3k não correrão o risco de contratar um advogado para recuperar o dinheiro salvo.
Quarto: para onde vai o dinheiro? Tanto quanto eu sei, poderia entrar em uma conta bancária chamada caridade e fim da história. Envion deve dar IBAN ou conta bancária do destino. Aqui vamos com o quinto.
Quinto: Envion é uma startup suíça que opera na Alemanha ... por que é isso?
Se todo mundo lê o white paper com cuidado, afirma que cidadãos americanos e titulares de cartões verdes não podem participar da ICO. A razão por trás disso é simples, os detentores de contas bancárias suíças têm algo chamado segredo profissional que protege o titular da conta (por exemplo, os bancos não precisam dar a identificação de seus clientes às agências de aplicação da lei)
A única maneira de ignorar isso é comprometer uma ação que é considerada crime nos EUA e Swizerland e que o proprietário pode ser processado em um desses países. Por isso, se ele cometeu uma fraude a um cidadão dos EUA e é processado por ele / ela, suas bananas no buraco escuro para o proprietário da conta.
PESSOAS POR FAVOR AUMENTAR A SUA INCENTIVIDADE, O MISMO VAI PARA OS MODERADORES

Texto original em Inglês:

Honestly, I agree with Mark about the whole thing, there are way too many redflags and the smell of fraud is leaking everywhere.
First of all, for the sake of investors Envion should prove immediately that they are a real company. How to do that?
Give legal adress and especially whareouse adress so they can invite potential costumers to take a tour.
Make videos and photos of the team working, videos and photos of people actually working on the container not fake interviews of Matthias talking with a greenscreen depicting Fankfurt financial center.
Second: why the f**k a seroius company like Envion keeps the owners of the company in shadows? Do you know why Envion is giving up the names of the team members? Because they will have no penal responsability if everything goes wrong.
Third: if the so called CTO Matthias is half of what he claims to be ( investing 300ml in solar energy) why the hell should he need tiny random investors from bitcointalk. A man of his caliber, with a strong financial background has, for sure, ties with the german financial hub and does not need 1000 people investing 2-3k in his enterprise.
Envion wants to collect money from as many people as possible because people who invest 2-3k is not going to risk to hire a lawyer to get some saved money back.
Fourth: Where does the money go? From as far as I know it could go into a bank account called charity and end of story. Envion should give IBAN or bank wire account of the destination. Here we go with the fifth.
Fifth: Envion is a swiss startup operating in germany...why is that?
If everybody reads the whitepaper carefully it states that American citizens and green card holders cannot participate to ICO. The reason behind this is simple, swiss bank account holders have something called professional secrecy wich protects the account holder( ex. Banks do not have to give id of their costumers to law enforcement agencies)
The only way to bypass that is to commit an action that it is considered crime in both US and Swizerland and that the owner can be prosecuted in one of these countries. Hence, if he commits fraud to a US citizen and it is sued by him/her, its bananas in the dark hole for the account owner.
PEOPLE PLEASE RAISE YOUR AWARNESS, SAME GOES FOR THE MODERATORS

Eu não vou me dar ao trabalho de traduzir, você pode fazê-lo, essas são as acusações o que já foram feitas no Telegram do queal faço parte e lí as respostas:

Quote from: envion on November 11, 2017, 07:01:05 PM

Quote from: MarkX2 on November 11, 2017, 05:18:53 PM

ADMIN?

THE ATTENTION OF INVESTORS!!!!!!!

All my posts deleted on the telegram!!!!!

I did not answer any similar question here!!!!!

Remove with a telegram because he can't answer? Huh

?

INVESTORS THINK!!!!!!!!

I think it's a Scam!!!!!!!!!!!!! I go on Monday to the police of Switzerland

Mark, I'm sorry you had to be removed because your conduct violated the channel's rules. You were warned repeatedly and many people asked for you to be removed.

I answered your questions on Telegram and I will answer them AGAIN here.

1. Are you SCAM?
No. But we encourage you to do your due diligence and find out for yourself. That means you have to look at our website and whitepaper at the very least.

You can learn all about what Envion does on our website, but if you want to be sure we're not a scam, I suggest you take a look at our team.

You can also see that we are in partnership with the Frauenhofer Institute, one of the premier science research institutes in Europe: http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/envion-ag-envion-and-fraunhofer-to-start-research-cooperation-20171109-00299

2. Where are founders and co-founders? Where are no info about founders on website!
All the info on our team is on the Team page, visible from the top navigation: https://www.envion.org/en/team/

The entire Envion team have been working on public projects in the German business community for yearswe are entrepreneurs with easily-accessible public profiles.

3. Where do you mine? NO INFO about your minig!!!
We have a Mobile Mining Unit in operation not far from our Berlin offices. We will have a second unit coming online in the next two weeks. Info about it and a view of the operating dashboard is available here: https://www.envion.org/en/mobile-mining-unit/

4. Website was open 1 month ago!!!
It's normal for a company to work in stealth until they are ready with their product. We are no different. Learn about stealth mode here: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/229461

Furthermore, we couldn't possibly have developed our IP, written our whitepaper, gotten lawyers, secured deals, etc. in in one month.

Now that we are public, we will also be announcing our external auditor from one of the Big Four auditing firms who will oversee our ICO and business operations for full transparency and accountability.

5. Where is technical characteristics for power ?
I don't know what this means and you refused to clarify in our discussion on Telegram.

6. Where is info about mining power per container&
There is considerable information on the technical specifications of our mining units in our 60-page whitepaper: https://www.envion.org/en/whitepaper/

In addition to that information, we are coming out with supplementary data that shows more detail on our projections and different operating scenarios. That is a need that arose from user requests here and on Telegram and we are responding to it.

7. Where do you locate&
We are a Swiss company with operations in Berlin, which is where our mining unit is. This information is on our website and has been confirmed by DigiCert to get our SSL license: https://www.envion.org/en/imprint/

8. To color a container is it your real technology?
As for what our innovation is, there are many: from using Industry 4.0 controls, to the mining software that dynamically chooses coin, algo, etc. from real-time market data, to the patent-pending cooling system.

If it were just throwing some ASICs in a box we wouldn't have one of the world's premier research institutions working with us, the Frauenhofer Institute (they invented MP3s too!).

MORE OF YOUR 'QUESTIONS':

1. Your company was created October, 5, 2017! (Info from Zug, Switzerland register - we can provide a paper).
Again, we were working in stealth mode. A lot of companies incorporate new entities in their ICO jurisdiction when they decide they will use an ICO to fund their project.

2. Website was created in October, 2017!
We hope you are not using our website to determine if we are legitplease do more research. Yes, it went public when envion went public with our company and project.

3. In White Paper you told about Envion technologies GmbH what will cooperate with you, but no any info about this company! Please, send me a link to this company!
Here is the text from the whitepaper: "After the ICO, we will found a 100% subsidiary for R&D and the management of container production: envion technologies GmbH, located in the German blockchain capital of Berlin."

I'm not sure how we can make the word AFTER more clear or to better describe the purpose of creating that subsidiary.

4. Account in Linked In was opened 1 week ago!
Stealth mode, dude. Not sure what else to say.

5. Your CEO is journalist and was hired in October, 2017 like all their team!
Our CEO has spent two decades in the energy industry after his career as a journalist, leading an energy investment fund in Berlin and advising many energy startups: http://www.quadrat-capital.com/management/

Mark, please stop the harassment. I've answered your questions many times over now. I welcome hard questions and don't even mind a bit of conflict, but you are scaring away other people from asking their important questions. I hope this suffices.