Quote from: spongegar on November 15, 2017, 11:34:02 AM

Quote from: dancupid on September 08, 2013, 06:32:50 PM

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Well, if you're an atheist, whatever you do won't have any consequences in this life. That whatever happens to you is of your own doing. Whatever happens to you is also of your own doing. There won't be a higher being to thank, no higher being to ask for help but yourself. Ultimately, after your life ends that's it. No heaven, no hell. No punishment for the wicked and no reward for the righteous

I must take extreme exception to the emphasized portion. That seems to me, and I have an unfortunate amount of exposure to Christianity, to be the EXACT truth of religion. "nothing matters in this life".

As an atheist/agnostic (I'll get back to that), I feel that what I do in THIS life is the ONLY thing that has any consequence. If like-minded and smarter people than I are able to extend life, then maybe there will be another lifetime. But I have no belief due to extreme lack of evidence in any sort of after life. From my perspective, the day of my death is my ending. Therefore what I do in this life is of PARAMOUNT importance, cuz it's the only shot I get.

Religious people like to mix up atheism as an actual philosophy, rather than something else. And there are atheists who do the same.

Thus, two categories have been arbitrarily assigned, and capriciously labeled.

The first, the so-called "strong" atheist, does indeed hold the view that there is no god. They hold this as close and dearly as the Theist holds to their beliefs.

The second, the so-called "weak" atheist, does not. I fall into the latter category, and I call it an arbitrary and capricious label because the "strong" position is logically weak, whereas the "weak" category is utterly defensible.

I do not believe there is a god or gods. Note that this is the exact opposite of believing there is no god. It is rather a statement that I do not have sufficient proof for the extraordinary claim that some being(s) who "live" outside of time and space in violation of all that we have learned caused it all to happen.

Is such a thing possible? Yes, I suppose it is. Is it plausible? Decidedly not.

To make this explicit in the minds of "believers", I will present to you a very simple argument that to my knowledge destroys all theistic religions. Not all deistic religions, mind you, but theistic.

Theism, regardless of stripe, holds the following as axiomatic.

1. There is or are a deity or deities
2. This being or group of beings is omnipotent
3. This being or group of beings want(s) to be worshiped by humans.

Following these axioms, there could NEVER BE more than one religion, arguments of free will notwithstanding. If all three are true, than we would KNOW that there are gods.

Now if point three is false, and the god(s) simply don't care, then they could exist within a logical framework. Of course, this, too, puts the binders on all theistic religions.

As for some of you claiming that atheists have no spiritual beliefs, this is simply untrue. A great many of us believe in such things, or at least ponder whether they can or do exist. Personally, the idea of spirits makes sense to me. Energy came first, why would it not also evolve first? That doesn't make such beings, if they exist, gods. Just a different sort of conscious life.

In my own life, I explore the esoteric and arcane to a great extent. I did not come lightly to my lack of belief in any gods. I started from the standpoint of rather extreme Christianity. When it failed to match up with reality, the cognitive dissonance was more than I could bear, so I went exploring. The exploration is not over, I yet live. But if there is a god, it's not that monster, nor the monster of the Muslims, nor any of the other monstrous deities who's followers wage war on one another over bullshit.

The thing that religious people never seem to understand about atheists is that we are NOT defined by atheism except by YOU. "Atheist", as a label, describes what I am NOT, not what I am. The word simply means "without gods". While it can imply a great many things, it doesn't define anything.

For instance, I am a philosopher, a religious man in a different way, a bitcoiner, a singer, a cook, a father, a son, I am a great many things, none of which are determined by what gods I don't believe in. I also would point out to you believers that absolutely every one of you is an atheist in regards to all the other gods aside from your chosen favorite. Again, it merely defines what you are NOT.

As I indicated above, I believe the "strong" and "weak" labels are arbitrary and capricious, and completely wrong. There is not one thing that is weak about my beliefs. One of them is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and that is simply lacking. If the supposed creator(s) of the universe made themselves known and could prove their claims, I would cease to be atheist, because it would no longer be a matter of "faith", which Mark Twain defined as the belief in what you know ain't so. But the dusty writings of Bronze Age people, while interesting, is not and will not be the definition of who I am. Or you, for that matter, because the computer you're using to view this would be viewed as an infernal device by those same people.

Religions, like life itself, evolve. But their core doctrines often hinder that evolution. For the most part, through this process, Christianity has become far less violent, though no less vile, over the course of centuries. Islam, with 700 years less to develop, came to it's more violent middle stage at the same time that weapons got a lot worse. Would be interesting to see who has the higher body count between the two.