Quote from: jerfelix on June 19, 2013, 08:56:52 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on June 18, 2013, 11:04:06 PM

Quote from: rovchris on June 18, 2013, 10:43:36 PM

Quote from: jerfelix on June 18, 2013, 10:24:21 PM

Quote from: FCTaiChi on June 18, 2013, 09:03:14 PM

This is pathetic. If you're still able to retrieve your nose, I'd recommend it. I'm not saying you need to attack them, I'm still of the opinion that what they are fairly honest. Hold them responsible for their promises though.

I don't feel a promise has been broken. Never have.

I placed an order, knowing that it was risky, including delivery time. I fully expected the delivery schedule to slip. And all signs are that he's busting his butt to get work done. That's cool by me.

I know stuff happens, and I would much rather have a business relationship with an ethical, smart, hard-working person who isn't on the forums all the time, than someone who is unethical, not smart, or lazy.

So far, Yifu has earned the benefit of the doubt, and I don't feel the least bit let down. When it comes, it comes.

Buddy I envy your tolerance but the issue is this - it's not a playstaion its a business tool.

[snip]

This is exactly the case for the ASIC miners. None of the companies have behaved in what would be considered a professional manner in any other industry and this is fact. I will say though in Avalon's defence they are by far the best of bad bunch.

Absolutely agree with the bolded. And to further your analogy I am assuming your company doesn't get 100% payment for the job before you do a single fucking thing LOL at best I am sure you get a small deposit and possibly a substantial payment on substantial completion (if your lucky and the deal was structured like that). If the BTC world isn't the modern wild west ATM then I don't know what is!

I recognize it's not a playstation, it's a business tool. Obviously I bought it expecting a certain ROI, and I realize that every day delayed is delaying "breakeven day" by more than a day.

But I built in those assumptions into my expectations.

People complain that the ASIC companies aren't being professional, but frankly this isn't a professional environment. Look through this topic of 300+ messages and compare how many messages are of the variety "they're crooks" vs. how many are professional, level-headed posts. Frankly, if a customer comes screaming into my business that I am a crook, I feel less of a need to reply, until we can get the conversation to a reasonable, business-person to business-person level. And if they spew venomous attacks on internet forums, any response of mine wouldn't be aimed at them, but aimed at the level-headed customers and prospects. I have "fired" customers whom I can't make happy - they're just not worth the trouble.

I have been a part of buying IT equipment and software as business tools for 35+ years. (and on the contrary, I have never touched a playstation in my life! Shocked

) In every case I can think of, the business tools were purchased because it was believed that they would provide a certain Return on the Investment. MANY weren't "off-the shelf" products, but instead had to be built to specification. Back when mini-computers broke onto the scene, it was the same way - those early customers knew they were taking a chance with delays, potentially stuff that didn't perform as expected, etc. But I saw very few customers with pitchforks in hand (perhaps because I only dealt with top-tier start-up vendors, if there's such a thing)!

Regarding traditional contracts of not paying in full until the goods are received... I chose to accept the terms being offered. I could have walked away. But those terms (including price, risks, and 100% prepayment) were market-driven; Had I not agreed to them, someone else would have! So it's somewhat pointless to argue now that somehow we are being screwed because we had to pay up-front.

Frankly, if my choice up-front was to (A) pay in full (and expedite shipment), or (B) pay 30% down and receive an email when it's getting ready to ship, which would trigger my 70% payment (plus an extra fee to cover the cost of this overhead), and then it would ship upon full payment, I probably would have chosen the former anyway. But the market didn't even demand this sort of pricing. Avalon's "no BS terms and conditions" pretty much said it all - that this is not for people without intestinal fortitude. "Here are the terms, take it or leave it." I took a deep breath and sent my Bitcoins.

I knew what I was signing up for. Yes, I'm anxious and disappointed that I don't have it yet. But, no, I don't feel this is much different from my expectation.

TL; DR? Disappointment is par for the course when working with greedy libertarians. ("Fuck you, got mine!")