Quote from: Ichthyo on June 19, 2013, 09:34:06 AM

Quote from: weisoq on June 19, 2013, 09:14:17 AM

the skew or ignorance or bullshit is self-evident, regardless of realities and economics. A shame for those interested in making more of cryptos and Bitcoin infrastructure and efforts, as that means it fails or was never intended to work

Can you please be more explicit?

What are those miraculous "realities" and "rules of economics" you are alluding all the time?

WHY ARE YOU ALLUDING TO THINGS instead of just stating what you think are the facts.

Thus again: say in one sentence what are those "facts" everyone seems to be ignoring?

It might well be that you are incapable of stating your "facts" in a single, clear sentence, and thus need to resort to telling fairy tales and slander other people.

Thus: proof to the contrary that you are able to give a coherent reasoning about what is broken with Bitcoin.

I posted on that above, trying to engage in a substantive discussion, but I'll post it again if you'd like to explain where I'm wrong. Otherwise do you have any actual opinion or basis for your faith beyond prayer and evangelism, or are you instead just going to keep repeating the same defensive nonsense such as the requirement to outine any view 'in a sentence'?

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You have two choices.

The first choice is to maintain the myths of Bitcoin for as long as possible, make what you will of good fortune to date, continue wasting good intellectual and capital investment in zero-sum endeavours where one group of techies screws over another, and therfore also waste an incredible opportunity for crytocurrencies to revolutionise finance and personal empowerment that would far surpass short-term personal gains (or at minimum waste a heck of a lot of time in getting to that point).

The second choice is to recognise that something has to change with Bitcoin because either:

1) Bitcoins are scarce in which case at some point those who do not already have any will rationally find something else to use instead of Bitcoin (see the rise of altcoins and alternatives as evidence of this). This phenomenon was predicted on these boards from at least 2010 when I started reading it, probably earlier, and will not end because its an inevitability, or

2) Bitcoins are not scarce because they may be replicated (for all intents and purposes with just a name change), in which case what is the value of a replicable and replicated digital asset offering no advantage over others?

Falling on either side of 1 or 2 without the existence of advantages or damn good reasons to prefer Bitcoin over alternatives (beyond marketing) therefore necessitates changes or precludes its demise beyond a blinkered niche. As to what changes are required, I will leave that to application of rationality and economics.

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I never assume that anyone is an idiot until they've given me a reason. In fact, if you read my posting history, you can see for yourself that I have a tendency to chastise people for underestimating the public (this comes up often in the many many threads about naming the fractions).
P.S. Confusion does not imply idiocy. Money is hard to understand, very few people really "get" it, but I suspect that most people can if they put in the effort.
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Everybody gets it. Whether they are able and willing to admit it is another matter. Perhaps unlike the bulk of people on this forum Id actually like cryptos to (be able to) replace state fiat not remain a token playthings between small groups. Thats not possible with Bitcoin unless it is changed. Rather than the continual trumpeting of any innate libertarian, free-market ethos to Bitcoin why isnt there more appreciation that the natural evolution of private free money and autonomy is that the next person or group will come along, compete with and improve it, likely resigning the previous form to the dustbin.

Either Bitcoin adherents accept there are flaws and moves with the times, or any objective observer has to conclude its just a pyramid because it doesnt work economically for the majority of economic participants who will rationally not adopt it when they work it out. And to be clear my perspective there is as simple as not discerning any great difference between one group of powerful cronies controlling the fortunes of everybody else and another - be that a government, us Bitcoiners or whoever. There is no special Bitcoin State that rewrites the rules of monetary theory or libertarian ideology and to think otherwise is naive or corrupt.