Quote from: katlogic on November 30, 2017, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: cryptohunter on November 30, 2017, 06:08:23 PM

bitbay and blocknet and byteball to be clones of bitcoin?

Blocknet and Bitbay are, in the stringent sense, "just bitcoin base hacked a bit". The reason im averse to that is that these overwhelmingly can't transcend what bitcoin already does in any meaningful manner and you get grotesque supernode perversions like dash.

Don't throw ByteBall in that mix though. Byteball is perfectly fine and im quite fond of it (that's why its in honorable mentions), but it's not technically trustless cryptocurrency in satoshian sense. It's a web of trust DAG, semantically more related to Ripple. It's a notable difference from Iota, where each transaction carries PoW proof (you can reframe iota as bitcoin where each transaction has its own block, but you can't do that for BB).

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Are you mainly trying to find NEW technology altogether that is real NEW from scratch development?

Indeed. It may seem asinine at first, but hear me out: People don't write new implementations just because they like the additional work, but because its often imperative to innovate. The only exception to the rule I've encountered is Sia, which for some odd reason is written from scratch, yet is technically very uninspiring and could work just as well as a bitcoin or some other codebase fork. The opposite is things like Ethereum - it'd be far more effort trying to bend bitcoin into that, hence why it is separate codebase from scratch.

Of course there's silver lining to the black and white thinking, and certain forks have proven innovative for one reason or another, but usually tend to be just mere extension of the original. A canonical example of this is Namecoin. It had its utility back then, and it was well engineered and everything, and it made sense to just fork bitcoin to do this. But it wasn't certainly that revolutionary, in fact, you could run the same service on bitcoin's chain, too.

Not everything is sunshine in the "from scratch" space. Tendermint and Maid come to mind as a massive clusterfuck of naivete and poor understanding, but it could be just growing pains.

edit: clarify why iota is trustless and byteball isnt

Thank you for your explanation. I understand what you are getting at and yes you are correct it is different to my other thread trying to identify projects that have real development and use cases but are not essentially innovative ( creating new from scratch designs) at their core. Some (or most) are variations of already proven tech but given new overlays that add utility or make it easier to apply to certain use cases. I totally get what you say when you comment these things are not transcending what is possible with bitcoin. Although both of these projects you mention i accept like 99% of wave one alts are bitcoin hacks i do think both if completed will provide a nice trustless decentralised service for what they are aiming at and are part of a group of select REAL projects that exist with proven dev teams. I see that only the most innovative and creative new designs from the ground up are what interests you.

Have you read any of anonymints posts? regarding sia ( he posed the proof of storage idea years before anyone else i believe) i think he said sia can never work (well proof of storage not just sia) so he abandoned the idea*** if i am misrepresenting what he said then that is my fault for not understanding it... Not only him but a few top devs have said iota will eventually fail when the training wheels are taken off at some point. So these designs although they seem very interesting could be fatal. Now of course I do not have the technical chops to know a good design from a flawed one but In time with wide usage I guess we will see if they work or not. I am not betting against either of them but it is perhaps to early to tell if they are good new designs (have enough advatages over btc to merit any down sides they may have) or just different designs to bitcoin. I mean if bitcoin did turn out to be the best design we still have after a few years then those running hacks on top of it to provide great use cases that are not immediately there with just bitcoin then they are hopefully still going to have great value.

Regarding bitbay however... although currently it runs on pos3 that code base is open to being altered. I believe DZ (bitbay dev) is in future looking at a few different possibilities. It hasn't as yet so i'm just talking dreams and talk until it has happened. I do think though he is capable of pretty much anything so when he tells me he is looking at doing it i do believe him.

There is radix coming out I think that could be of interest to you since i have heard this is a real project but as yet is only in test net. I think this will be a new design. He apparently tried dag years back but discounted it due to reasons beyond my understanding and seems a very good developer.

I hold to my belief so far though that there are very very very few Real developers here that have the chops to make something other than like you say a standard clone of what we have with straight forward bitcoin.

One point you did make which i think is valid too is that sometimes the key devs that develop something new don't always end up with the best project based on their design. I mean take monero... I am not sure exactly but are the devs that made bytecoin (was this the original) even involved with monero? I did hear that the main designer of crytponote was CZ the dev of boolberry. However a few years back he kind of abandoned it or rather just left it to start another project. He still posts here and there but not too much. Either way right now monero seems king of that code base and the others...not so much.

Anyway nice to hear what you had to say.

can i please know your opinion on xby and xrb ? these seem interesting but for a layman as myself impossible to tell if they have merit fully.