Quote from: Saschaman on December 03, 2017, 11:42:11 AM

Quote from: cybercash on December 02, 2017, 09:27:58 AM

Quote from: Saschaman on December 01, 2017, 06:45:48 PM

I actually mine with a rival of yours, I must tell you, if you reinvest 25% of your proceeds in the hardware I would say you are not going anywhere, I mean it takes about 15 months to break even on average, and then you have another say 8 months or 10 with earnings then you need to replace the hardware. Sure there are better months, but since the whole industry becomes larger it is to be assumed that profits will be less. So with 25% of proceeds, IMHO, there is no way to replace the rigs.

Also can someone please tell me if the company really believes that there is a 161% ROI for the investor, that reminds me the example with the king and the beggar and the rice, in no time every investor would have more money as there is money in the whole world...

Did you look into this?
https[Suspicious link removed]mplary-hardware-specifications-kpis-of-envions-mmu-ff5fb77cd5da

There is everything you need to know about the 161% ROI.

What this article shows is, sorry to say, that you have either no idea or worse.

I have no time to go every over every aspect of calculation so I just pick a few:

A3) Average local energy prices, very very unlikely, on EEX ist 0.0435 on average and taxes are not included here so why would anybody offer you energy for less, anyway it will not make a large difference.

K3) Cost of an ASIC miner: 1945 USD, at least in Germany its impossible, since, including the PSU this is the price in China if you are very lucky. Then you need to fly it somewhere, pay customs, and especially VAT within Europe which you do not get back because the end product (cryptocurrencies) has no VAT on top. So the price of an ASIC is currently or a month ago more like 2400 USD.

K13) This is total nonsense, the mining profit decreases every month and will most probably reach zero profitability within 2 years. I am mining for many years and on average your profit will be about 50% per year and this only after quite some time when you dealt with many problems already. When the next generation of miners comes to the market earlier your hardware will be useless even faster than 2 years.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Also when profitability for ETH or Bitcoin drops dramatically then, with a large mining facility you cannot just switch to other coins.

Sure you can mine Einsteinium, no Problem, but with 1000 MMUS not, you cannot do it with some small coins you need to mine large coins and you will run into this problems just like now.

F) These costs are very unlikely, shipping a container 1000 USD ?, from where to where, usually even insurance cost more just for a short ride. Energy components, if you want to be safe is definitely more and don't forget, power stations don't have 50,100 or whatever KW plugs hanging around, you need to install transformators there for this purpose and long cables with large diameters made from copper, they can cost 20K USD easily for a single container. What about the cost of disposing of the units after lifetime, where is the insurance for transport, for the container and for the power station in case your equipment destroys it?

X) 1000 MMU´s that will require a shitload of people, handling, and organizing, bookkeeping, legal departments, monitoring and more.

I'm not part of the Envion team, but I think I can answer some of the issues you raised:

A3 - This whole project is based on cheap renewable energy deals which would be cheaper than what's currently available. See the CEO's background. Envion hasn't provided the exact details of the deals they've signed, claiming it's for business reasons. This seems like a reasonable claim to me, but its up to each and every person to decide if they want to trust Envion on this.
K3 - The 23% price difference you pointed out can be explained when thinking of large batch orders.
K13 - The key to solving this is signing deals with miner suppliers to secure next generation miners first and fast. Envion claims they did this, and again it's plausible considering the high volume of purchase orders they will expect to make. Regarding switching - they claim that their software will be able to monitor mining profitability on all coins and switch between them as needed. It's not that complex to implement and I'm sure all big miners do it. It's true that they will need to mine large coins mostly but if BTC/ETC falls and there is no other large coin around to take their place, that probably means that the whole cryptocurrency world collapsed. The common ground of all investors should be a belief in the future of blockchain technologies. I'm saying blockchain and not cryptocurrency, because even if cryptocurrency will not be mined directly anymore in the future, there will still be blockchains around that will need mining for other reasons (to run decentralized apps most probably) and these will have to award miners with different coins.
F - I'm not an energy expert, but regarding the shipping - the first containers will be shipped to the nearest sites around Germany, probably by truck, so $1000 transportation and insurance seems reasonable.

Again, I'm not from envion, so admins will need to confirm and fill the holes.

Remember that Envion also calculated BTC price of $8K/BTC while we are over $11K/BTC now. If this price persists or even rises, it would lead to a higher profit than 161% ROI or at least will cover some of the other issues that worry you.