Quote from: usagi on June 25, 2013, 10:39:31 AM

Quote from: Deprived on June 24, 2013, 07:33:01 AM

Perhaps the best and fairest way to look at how good his reporting is would be to look at his active, running asset - TU.SILVER. So let's have a look at its NAV/U,

Hmm, I can't. To look at the accounts I'd have to spend $90 buying a share then give it to him. Luckily he has weekly reports, so I don't need to see the accounts - and can just look at the NAV/U there.

Hmm, that's strange. There's no mention in of it in the last few. In fact the last mention of any NAV/U or similar is in the monthly report at the end of May where it says :

"Internal Calculation of 0.04348010"

Guess it hasn't changed much and that's still around what the NAV/U is. And there's another clue as to where the price lies in a later post of his:

Quote from: usagi on June 07, 2013, 10:42:46 PM

An example of an un-reasonable price (imo) is 0.033 and 0.099. The people with those orders up should be unlikely to get them filled!

His advice to investors, BTW, is just to guess what the price is - put up an order and if he likes it he'll fill it.

So over we trot to the Bitfunder order book to pick up some of the shares - we know there should be some for sale as he just got some new silver in.

Hmm - fuck all volume on the Bid side (he long since gave up the pretence that he was going to provide visible liquidity) and on the Ask side:

21    ฿0.09090
45    ฿0.0910
700    ฿0.10

Nothing under .09. And we know the 700 order is his (check asset lists and noone other that him holds anything near that number) - at a price he himself said was unreasonable not that long ago (and with no news in between to suggest it had suddenly become reasonable).

What's happening here is actually classic usagi. He tries to sell his shares at well above their value - making sure to either give no information or wrong information to investors. If some sucker actually buys at that price, that then increases NAV/U and he can either pay it out as dividends or brag about how his trading is making profit. When all he's really doing is running a near ponzi - where the profit for existing shares come from new sales.

1. I am not obliged to buy or sell shares at any price. The FACT that the market participants do not want to sell shares under 0.09 should be a big clue to you.

2. Here's another clue, doofus:

2013-06-25 05:21:40    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000
2013-06-24 19:03:56    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000
2013-06-23 22:10:04    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   5     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.45000000
2013-06-23 08:08:02    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09090000/ea    ฿0.09090000
2013-06-23 06:51:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000
2013-06-23 06:50:52    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07100000/ea    ฿0.07100000
2013-06-23 06:50:44    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07200000/ea    ฿0.07200000
2013-06-23 06:50:37    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07300000/ea    ฿0.07300000
2013-06-23 06:50:30    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07400000/ea    ฿0.07400000
2013-06-23 06:50:24    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07500000/ea    ฿0.07500000
2013-06-23 03:20:55    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-20 12:59:17    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000
2013-06-20 12:59:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07600000/ea    ฿0.07600000
2013-06-20 09:07:12    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-19 16:58:39    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-18 08:23:39    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000
2013-06-18 08:23:38    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.08100000/ea    ฿0.08100000
2013-06-17 11:22:09    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000
2013-06-15 22:20:33    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09099900/ea    ฿0.09099900
2013-06-15 04:01:14    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-14 00:52:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06100000/ea    ฿0.06100000
2013-06-14 00:52:53    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06200000/ea    ฿0.06200000
2013-06-14 00:52:45    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06300000/ea    ฿0.06300000
2013-06-14 00:52:40    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06400000/ea    ฿0.06400000
2013-06-14 00:52:35    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06500000/ea    ฿0.06500000
2013-06-14 00:52:23    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06600000/ea    ฿0.06600000
2013-06-13 22:02:31    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-13 00:55:50    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-12 05:48:21    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.09100000
2013-06-11 08:02:26    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   2     ฿0.09100000/ea    ฿0.18200000
2013-06-11 00:47:15    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.06500000/ea    ฿0.06500000
2013-06-11 00:47:00    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07000000/ea    ฿0.07000000
2013-06-11 00:46:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.07500000/ea    ฿0.07500000
2013-06-11 00:46:36    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.08000000/ea    ฿0.08000000
2013-06-11 00:46:28    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09000000/ea    ฿0.09000000
2013-06-11 00:46:13    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09500000/ea    ฿0.09500000
2013-06-10 23:19:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.09900000/ea    ฿0.09900000
2013-06-08 03:55:34    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   23     ฿0.05250000/ea    ฿1.20750000
2013-06-08 03:37:33    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   17     ฿0.05250000/ea    ฿0.89250000
2013-06-06 10:37:48    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   67     ฿0.05399000/ea    ฿3.61733000
2013-06-06 10:36:44    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   33     ฿0.05399000/ea    ฿1.78167000
2013-06-06 10:36:05    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   8     ฿0.05354000/ea    ฿0.42832000
2013-06-06 10:35:26    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.05354000/ea    ฿0.05354000
2013-06-01 13:45:24    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   75     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿3.67500000
2013-06-01 10:58:41    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   3     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.14700000
2013-06-01 10:58:08    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   4     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.19600000
2013-06-01 09:49:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   1     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.04900000
2013-06-01 02:35:59    BUY: (TU.SILVER):   5     ฿0.04900000/ea    ฿0.24500000

This is a snippet from my personal trading account. This is me buying back over 30% of issued shares at a price above book value. And there is a reason why I am doing it.

As for the rest of your comments, you clearly have no clue how to run an asset. The fact that I and the company can buy back shares at this price is proof the company is worth that much. Hint: If the company has the cash to buy back all it's outstanding shares at 0.1, it is worth at least that much because it has the cash on hand. If no one else wants to buy or sell shares at that price, it is meaningless. The fact remains; no one wants to sell at anywhere close to NAV, and that is a sign of incredible faith in management. Tu.SILVER will be worth more and more as time goes by because the hefty distribution payment will be reinvested by the company.

Aren't you really just whining because no one wants to sell their shares under 0.09? Because you can't buy cheap shares? Well, sucks to be you doesn't it? Try playing nice and I'll consider a PP for 500+ shares at 10% off. Till then, have fun lying about me and my funds. It's not working anymore.

Oh, one other thing. Can you juke 5,000 LTC-ATF.B1 for me? I've decided your fund sucks and will be investing elsewhere.

Pretty hilarious post.

Your point 1 is that noone will sell back under .09. Then in your point 2 you produce proof of people doing exactly that - selling back under .09.

You then talk about how if a company can afford to buy-back shares at .1 it means something. But you'd just said that the buy-backs were with your PERSONAL account and not by the company at all. And with your company attempting to SELL at 0.1 Not BUY.

Noone wanting to sell near NAV means exactly squat when you don't even tell people what NAV is! They're entitled to expect the price you're trying to sell at is near NAV as your contract says :

"How it works
We calculate the price of silver in bitcoins and add a small markup for shipping and vault storage."

and also :

"The lowest price in BTC
Compare our prices to most online coin shops and we believe you will choose TU.SILVER."

You brag about having a small markup and being cheap - which can ONLY be true if you sell slightly over NAV/U. Obviously it's just a pack of lies - but maybe not all investors are familiar with your lying ways - and so assume your selling price has some relationship to the NAV/U.

Now BMF's approved I guess the market has to put up with the same crap there - specifically :

Small bids up to over NAV/U from you to try to tempt overbids.
Disguised issued share count - tempting investors who try to calculate NAV/U from holdings to forget all the unseen off-the-books shares held by you/your companies and end up believing it much higher than it is.
Dumps from you when some idiot overbids your own bids.
Buy-backs (likely undisclosed) to drain cash (if you ever get any) to your other companies/yourself.
Lack of regular updates on NAV/U to help investors make mistakes.

On LTC-ATF.B1 you can sell back the bonds for either BTC or LTC.
If you want BTC then you can have full face value.
If you want LTC then it'll take slightly longer - and you'll get (per the contract) whatever LTC is raised by selling 99% of face value (so 49.5 BTC) into bids on BTC-E. Delay will just be however long it takes for burnside to approve a withdrawal - there'd be 0 delay on the other direction as would immediately pay if from LTC already held on LTC-Global.

In either case DMS would be taking them so you'd need to :

1. Send the shares to DeprivedMining on LTC-Global (you can send to DeprivedAsset - the issuer - if you prefer).
2. PM me or reply here saying whether you want LTC or BTC, which account you want it sent to (user name) and which user names you sent from (PM may be better if you don't want all your user names made public - it must be at least 4 different accounts if you have 5k).
3. If BTC you'll get a transfer soon as I notice, if LTC I'll submit a BTC withdrawal immediately - sell it when it lands then promptly send you the LTC. Obviously selling ~50 BTC at once may take the price down somewhat. BTC would come from DeprivedMining on BTC-TC, LTC would come from DeprivedAsset on LTC-Global.