Quote from: LeGaulois on December 05, 2017, 02:22:04 PM

Quote from: thecodebear on December 05, 2017, 03:12:26 AM

One of the big features of Bitcoin is that it is cheaper than paying with credit cards. Of course currently the Bitcoin fees are very high since it needs scaling so its only cheaper right now if you're buying a couple hundred dollars or more worth of stuff.

Anyways, businesses have hidden the credit card fees from consumers by pricing them in to products and eating the fees. With Bitcoin though, the sender pays the fee. Even if the fee is a lot lower than credit card fees, you're still spending more when using Bitcoin because the the sender pays the fee. This needs to change since businesses already price in fees. I've never bought anything with Bitcoin, so maybe this is already done by newegg and overstock, etc, but do you think retailers will subtract the fee paid from the price of the item when buying with Bitcoin? Do retailers do this now? If this doesn't happen, even if fees go way back down, this would be a terrible user experience if you have to pay a fee on top of the cost of a product when compared to paying with credit card where the fee included in that same sale price.

The fees from credits have never been hidden, it's something everyone is aware of, or at least they should be. You can't expect to go to the supermarket to buy tomatoes and see the price listed with the fees, VAT, origin, etc. Imagine:
3 kilo of tomatoes 5$
5.10$ if you pay with a card
5.20$ if you pay with a cheque
5.05$ if you pay with a banknote

it's to totally not doable.
The fees to process a payment using a card is still far cheaper than the Bitcoin fees, it's just some cents usually.

You seem to be thinking I'm saying the exact opposite of what I'm actually saying. I'm not saying the cost is different depending on how you pay. I'm saying the cost ISN'T different no matter how you pay. It's always the same cost. Because merchants have priced the fees of credit cards into the sale price. But with Bitcoin the cost IS different, because you have to pay a fee on top of the cost. So I'm saying payment software for Bitcoin should incorporate the fee into the price instead of having to pay the fee on top of the price. So that you don't get a situation where you pay $5 with anything except Bitcoin, but with Bitcoin you pay $5 plus however much the transaction fee is.

When you buy $5 of something with a credit card the merchant loses ~3% of that to the credit card company. It should be the same for Bitcoin. When you buy $5 of something you should pay a transaction fee on top of that, the merchant should just lose the transaction fee to the bitcoin miners, so that you still are only paying $5. Obviously for small purchases this isn't possible until Bitcoin figures out its scaling solutions. Because then the fee should be way less than the ~3% credit card fee, which is why Bitcoin will be good for businesses because they will lose less money on each purchase. Even now with average transaction fees of $3-$6 dollars as long as you're paying >$200 it would still be cheaper for the merchant than paying with a credit card. Though of course right now the merchant doesn't pay the fee the user does, and that is a terrible experience for the user! Because then Bitcoin users are just paying more for everything!