Quote from: thecodebear on December 07, 2017, 12:27:30 AM

Quote from: kokojie on December 06, 2017, 11:07:04 PM

Quote from: thecodebear on December 06, 2017, 10:50:14 PM

Quote from: kokojie on December 06, 2017, 10:36:31 PM

Quote from: thecodebear on December 06, 2017, 09:44:11 PM

Quote from: kokojie on December 06, 2017, 08:44:57 PM

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

1. LN isn't proven to reduce fees, I don't really see how it can reduce fees except a few very specific use case. LN isn't some magical tech that can suddenly scale Bitcoin to Visa levels.
2. even if LN did reduce fees, it's a little too late, merchant adoption has reversed and Bitcoin's reputation has been tarnished in terms of being used as currency.

hahaha What you're saying in #1 shows you clearly don't have any idea what the LN is. So why are you trying to make claims about it??
#2...well thats just hilarious. You said that in your last post, why are you trying to peddle that lie. Bitcoin has far more merchant adoption then any other crypto obviously. And merchant adoption, also obviously, has barely even begun, to say its too late when we're still at the starting gate is just silly. I'm guessing you are perhaps a BCH shill who is desperately hoping merchants adopt it instead of Bitcoin before LN comes and utterly crushes it. Am I getting warm?? Grin

Then show me how LN will reduce fees for Steam? You understand that to open/close a LN channel, you have to makes minimum two transactions ON CHAIN? how will Steam utilize the LN channel for each purchase of games from each customer? Close the channel like once a year? Sure that'll be agreeable, lol, no business will allow their revenue to be delayed for a year.

Basically, you have to make at least 3 transactions while the channel is open, for LN to be worthwhile at all. The use case is extremely limited.

Did you not even think about how this would work before you wrote that? a year?? haha. why would they keep it open for a year??

I don't know what payment options Steam has. So i'll just quickly explain in general. Any serious merchant probably has lots and lots of people buying stuff every day. If they use credit cards the merchant loses 3%+ on every transaction. LN sure they do two on chain transactions to open and close a payment channel, those fees would be nothing compared to however much business they are doing. They could open and close their payment channel every 24 hours if they wanted, or however often they wanted, two onchain fees are nothing on a daily basis for a business. So if they keep the payment channel open for even just 24 hours, they might do hundreds of transactions that day and we don't know exactly what LN fees will be but the Poon guy who came up with LN said they should be in the 0.1% to 1% range. So even if it's 1%, that means on every single one of hundreds of transactions a day they are saving 2%+. For a business that would end up being a lot of money!!

So why exactly do you think saving money is of no interest to businesses?? I didn't realize saving money was an "extremely limited use case" haha

Obviously, you don't even know how LN works. The channel is opened between 2 parties, the merchant and the customer. So you need minimum two onchain transaction for EACH customer, because you need a channel for each distinct customer. Get it? If the merchant open and close a channel every 24 hours, for EACH customer, then that's probably MORE transactions than we currently have, because vast majority of customers will only do 1 transaction.