Quote from: bergenic on December 08, 2017, 12:13:05 PM

I just read this Coindesk article (link: https://www.coindesk.com/threat-bitcoin-futures/) about futures, and it says:

But heres the thing: the money will not be pouring into the bitcoin market. It will be buying synthetic derivatives that dont directly impact bitcoin at all.

For every $100 million (or whatever) that supermegahedgefundX puts into bitcoin futures, no extra money goes into bitcoin itself. These futures do not require ownership of actual bitcoins, not even on contract maturity.

---> so, if futures are just basically bets on the Bitcoin price movements and totally outside the Bitcoin blockchain, why would they have any effect on the price? Why would Bitcoin price go up or down because of futures exists? Anyone could make any bets of the price movements already right now as it is. Ofc you can argue to some extent that people who bet the price to go up might go and buy Bitcoin their selves to help boost it. But there are so many whales who have bought bitcoins at 1$ or 10$ years ago who really control such things. If some Wall Street fat cat goes now to the market when the price is 15.000 there's a limit how much he can buy it without the risk growing way too high.

This whole thing feels like inside out. There have been long time some ETFs you can buy, where the fund actually owns bitcoins. So, each time someone buys the asset the fund goes and buys Bitcoins. This is something that effects the price, yet people are talking about only these futures.

Could someone explain this, who knows the futures market better Huh

Perhaps, I will agree with you. But, when rates make the whales of the market, it matters to small investors. They start to buy or sell in a panic. After all, I think that whales are smarter. So there will be a price manipulation.