Quote from: liquidcryptos on December 16, 2017, 11:35:10 PM

Quote from: LEffT on December 16, 2017, 09:46:05 PM

Quote from: liquidcryptos on December 16, 2017, 02:51:48 PM

Quote from: LEffT on December 16, 2017, 10:59:43 AM

Quote from: liquidcryptos on December 16, 2017, 07:25:07 AM

Quote from: B0bares on December 16, 2017, 04:39:25 AM

As I said before, Envion are not the first one, producing Mobile Mining Units - Bitfury are long ago in the business.
Second, the hardware - they are planing to use Antminer 9S, the most popular ASIC miner, but more than year old model. New miner producing company will flood the market with new 16 Terahashes miner in March 2018, which means Bitmain most likely will be ready with Antminer 11S around that time. That means Envion will spend their money for old equipment.
They were very optimistic they can beat Bancors ICO, but it is not so easy...
One little red flag - why you need to send your money BEFORE the KYC process. The rest of the world is doing the opposite Wink

Hi there. How do you know what miners they are planning on using. We could guess that its the antminer s9.. which does 14th.. you are assuming that the S11, with just 13% more power is somehow going to change everything and reduce the profit dramatically? That doesnt make sense. Also they will be continuously producing Mining units, so will be producing with whatever produces the best TH/$ right?
THe KYC thing, I have seen many ico's do it that way. they dont want the issue of sending photos and verifying lowering a persons chance of being a part of the ICO, that makes sense to me.

That's like very obvious if you read their whitepaper.

They are planning to use 13.5 th/s ASICs which to this date considering quantity they want could only be s9 bitmain antminers.
They are also planning to use Radeon 460 x13 rigs on linux (about 10.6 mh/s + 85 watts per GPU they have listed on also gives you the idea)

I planned to invest initially but now that all this is up... I am truly amazed how many people invest without even looking up the basic facts.

"All this is up.."
Huh? What are you referring to? I follow Envion fairly closely and this forum and I dont see anything that would stop me from investing. Please elaborate. Did you read my previous posts? There is a huge profit opportunity in mining, period. Let alone increasing that using cheaper energy.

I'm not sure what part of world you come from, but I live in Russia and have almost limitless supply of energy below Envion's average price point (listed in whitepaper, again), so energy is never a problem for those who know where to look to invest and are actually invested into mining (read: not 1 4x gpu rig in their basement, but a farm of at least 10-15 rigs).
good, so we know envion has plenty of access to energy, check!.

If you say you follow Envion closely, look at the reviews they are given by profesesional ICO community (at best, reviewers give it 3 out of 5, some call it sketchy, its all in google, mate).
I do my own research. Professional ICO reviewer? what does that even mean? Ive been reviewing companies for 13 years
What stops me from being invested in this is the fact that I have not seen a single person who is an actual miner on their team. Engineers? yes. Consultants? yes. Marketers? Hell yes. Miners? ...
I have been using computers all of my life, it took me about 3 days to learn about mining, 3 more days to optimize my rigs. Its not rocket science. Now if you want to talk about programming a software layer to optimally monitor all of the miners, that requires some skill. The actual mining part is a joke. Their team is beyond those basics. But thank you for pointing out that they have engineers consultants marketers.... Team? CHECK!

+ the fact that they are compiling tons of low hashrate gpus + the fact that they want to buy millions of dollars worth of s9 (which as some forum mebers pointed out before is impossible due to shortage of supply we already have), how do you still believe they will make up to their promises?
They DO have the purchase orders for the miners already, they dont have to promise, they just have to be not Lying. which i believe they are not.[ Envion staff has mentioned that they are able to purchase because of large quantity orders, and that these relations are established and that they have the equipment ready to be purchased and suppliers on standby.

Have you seen a mockup of a business model? Geographical destinations for "low-cost energy"? Cost mitigation plans (i.e. new more powerful asics on market, heavy increase in difficulty of mining, switching to lower cost grids, etc)? All I see is 1 mini-demo and a lot of marketing with broad words but no specifics (been discussed many times like hundreed pages ago).
They have LOI with energy providers already, also they just announced a partnership with the royal family of Dubai, and as you said yourself, even just parking them on the street in russia is low cost energy

3 more risk factors:
- They promised a big4 audit by Dec1 like several months ago - where is it?
They are being audited as we speak, they provided a notarized letter confirming the audit is taking place, did you not know that?
- They promised a patent on their "cooling system" - where is it?
Patent is pending, they provided a patent#, Patents do not show up immediately at the office, again, I dont beleive they are sacrificing their reputations and lying
- They just made about $21 mln in fundraising, but they got only a couple of engineers on board, who is going to assemble all of this in time to give you first payout in the end of January?
assemble the units? There was a statement from their Seif Shieshakly stating the GPUs are all secured, the supply chain is in place, their team does not assemble them, they have workers in china assemble from start to finish

"huge profitabiliy in mining" - imagine what happens to profitability if someone pours $150 mln's worth of tech into the pool of 5-6 most profitable cryptocurrencies that yield 30-40% more than their lower-margin competitors. Do u even know what mining difficulty is? In just 2 months my etherium generation dropped by 20%, this is just an example. BTW, their current calculations do not account for crypto rates fluctuation and assume they are flat
Do I know what mining difficulty is? I mean you asked some good questions here, and I'm glad you did because it seems you are not as informed as I am, but now you are just insulting. Crypto is supply and demand, right now the gap is large, first movers will benefit and my ROI will be 100% from this project in no time, in 2 years from now we cant guess at the state of the space, but a group that has versatility and cheap energy access is what I am betting on

Now, again, I'm not saying Envion is a scam, but I'm saying these people have no idea what they're doing and the promised 161%/yr ROI is not possible with this team and with this approach AND with these deadlines.
Don't trust my word, go check out how other industrial miners operate and pitch for capital and then come back and look at Envion again. To me it seems like ur not doing ur homework but instead screaming out on the forum mate.

You just have to read my comments, sir. Tell me who needs to do his homework.

I think it is best that we finish this pointless conversation before it goes ugly. You are invested into this ICO which makes you stand in a defensive position regarding very obvious facts.

A word about my background: I worked for 2 BIG4 companies in strategy/operational excellence within 6 different industries ranging from heavy manufacturers to financial services providers and I own a decent mining farm myself. Excuse me if I don't believe facts like "well you know they said that they have..." or "theres an article on their website saying that..." - these are no facts (especially for a person with my background), its just a bunch of words with no hard evidence behind them. I can make a website and type any statements in there - will you also believe all you see there?

Also, the majority of your arguments follow some broken logic, which makes me doubt your background and hence credibility of most of your assumptions, although there are a couple of valid points to take... It is obvious to me you are not miner yourself and your background is arts or economics at very best, you don't sem to completely undrestand core functions of a mining operations, you have little understanding of how mining brings money over the span last 2 years, so why continue this conversation, really, I don't intend to get personal here I'm just stating my point of view and facts that I know.

An example of what I mean:
Me - "Energy is not a deal braker for any serious mining operation, Envion is trying to solve the wrong issue, that was never there in the first place"
You - "good, so we know envion has plenty of access to energy, check!"

I'm sorry, what?

Our conversation logic so far:
You - "How do you know what miners they are planning on using?"
Me - "Read the whitepaper, it's all in there"
You - "Tell me who needs to do his homework"

As you may remember (if you are really following Envion that closely) they promised audit on 1st of December and the ICO was supposed to start on 1st of December - this is a good practice gone wrong.
I do wish you luck with this investment and I do believe Envion will make some profit, I'm just saying they have too ambitious goal to make up to.

Honestly, give me $2.7k and 3 weeks of time, I will assemble a rig that does make 177 mh/s in Ethash and you will start making 240% ROI/yr given current prices/difficulty in ETH (if we're talking ETH that is). I will assemble it from top-notch components (not the sheitteh 460s and unknown unstable mobos) and post-market consumables like RAM/HDD but I will never promise u a good return if the rigs are assembled from god knows what by some dudes in China. I have reviewed over a dozen of manufacturing contracts with Chinese ops and they usually result in about 40% manufacturing defects. This is an actual benchmark btw.

But... again, we can go debating for hours and its totally not worth it. Have a good day and good luck with this, just know there are better ways of spending your money.