Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on July 03, 2013, 09:48:28 PM

Dude...

You and BFL may want us all to believe this but until a customers order physically ships it appears according to the FTC that the company must issue a prompt refund when the customer asks for a refund for ANY reason.

Just because their ToS is against FTC regulations doesn't mean it's OK to break those regulations because you put it in your ToS LDO.

(Bolded in mine)

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customers consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customers consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

The way I read this BFL is clearly in violation of the FTC mail and telephone order merchandise rule (punishable by the FTC suing them for up to $16,000 per incident).

Your turn, please post some evidence of BFL's no refund policy being legitimate.

Reading comprehension is my friend... I'd be happy to introduce you if you'd like to meet up.

Item 1: any option to cancel: There is no option for canceling in the sales contract, it specifically states non refundable. An Option refers to a provision in the contract allowing... etc.

Incorrect. The customer cannot waive the rules of the FTC for BFL, nor can BFL make them disappear by claiming they do not have to follow them (e.g. "no cancellations and/or no refunds"). Customers retain their right to a refund from BFL under the "Dry testing" advisory opinion issued by the FTC about the "Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Trade Regulation Rule".

Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

Item 2: concerns company initiated action - does not apply.

Except that company initiated action was required of BFL, which they failed to do.
If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund.
BFL missed their original promised date of October and has never issued a hard date since. "As soon as two more weeks" and "2 months or more" are not shipping dates.
By law, you must have a reasonable basis for stating that a product can be shipped within a certain time. If your advertising doesn't clearly and prominently state the shipment period, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days.

Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

Item 3: concerns company initiated action - does not apply.

Also incorrect. "definite revised shipment date" does not mean "later". It means a calendar day ("by July 18th") or a fixed time period ("within 3 days"). Since BFL never provided what they were required to provide, the customers were denied their opportunity to cancel their orders in response to it.

Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

Item 4: nobody consented to any sort of 'definite delay' - bfl ship time has always been "later"

Since BFL did not provide their revised schedule, nobody had the opportunity to consent to it.
For definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.
BFL are the kings of the indefinite delay.

Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

Item 5: doesn't apply since no definite deliver date ever established.

That is a violation of FTC rules. By law, you must have a reasonable basis for stating that a product can be shipped within a certain time.
"Later" is the opposite of certain.

Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

My advice to you would be - stop trying to invoke the ftc - you obviously don't understand enough about contract law to have any hope of interpreting their regulations.

Oh the irony. Instead of looking up the rules yourself or going to one of the dozens of sites that explain them to you, you just waltz in wing it. So far PayPal has been granting refunds to BFL customers who want them, but the FTC is there if PayPal ever cuts off the flow of refunds.