Quote from: dudeofthestick on July 05, 2013, 10:34:35 PM

Quote from: itod on July 05, 2013, 09:50:23 PM

Quote from: dudeofthestick on July 05, 2013, 07:19:51 PM

If the only payment method is bitcoins, I don't understand why they tax the purchase with VAT.

VAT only applies to FIAT transactions. With Bitcoins you can avoid this tax.

This is not true, at least in my country. VAT applies to all transactions, for goods and services, no matter what the currency it was originally taken. For the purpose of VAT the value of the transaction is recalculated in the local currency, and VAT (20%) is always applied in local currency. Avoiding to pay VAT is serious offense and actively prosecuted, so sport of avoiding VAT is not even talked about in any business worth its salt.

You are wrong. Bitcoin is not a legally accepted currency.

When you operate with Bitcoins you are "exchanging" them for good and services.

Strictly speaking, you only need to pay the VAT when you convert from fiat to bitcoins, because you are buying them. Whatever transactions you do afterwards is bartering.

Do you understand now why governments hate bitcoins? It is not because of money laundering: it's because it could be legal to use them to avoid taxes tributes.

AFAIK not exactly as both above... I think need to separate few procedures.

AFAIK VAT tax will not apply to individual in general, only personal income tax. VAT tax will apply to juridical entities, if no exempt (church as charity organization for example). If VAT quarter balance is positive, you should pay VAT tax (diff = VAT credit - VAT debit).

operation can be

1. If you buy BitCoin you need not to declare nothing (VAT debit)
2. If you sell BitCoin you need to declare annual income (VAT credit). Do you remember German regulator wrote = if you sell BitCoin once a year - this is tax exempt ?
3. If you transfer BitCoin need not to declare nothing
4. If you receive some value - let say the device - actually you need to to declare annual income (and VAT will credit if juridical entity)
5. If you ship out some value - VAT debit the same as you pay fiat money.

so, by bookkeeping point of view does not matter will you ship out or pay, the key is value movement.

For example you pay EUR 12000 August 3, show as device purchasing (does not matter, thru BitCoin or bank payment or cash, depends on what you will write to bookkeeping). Let say VAT 20%. VAT debit is EUR 2000. Let say month later you receive the device invoice price EUR 9000, VAT credit 1500. And this all till October 1 (next quarter). VAT tax is 2000 - 1500 = EUR 500 you will have VAT debit within 4 quarter. This is sceleton of VAT tax. (By the way, you can repay VAT debit by gov). If you will receive devices total value EUR 18000 (VAT 3000) you will have VAT credit EUR 1000 and should pay VAT tax EUR 1000. VAT balance of company bookkeeping vary quarter by quarter.

CONCLUSION.
German regulators show the way http://bitcoinmagazine.com/germany-provides-leadership-for-bitcoin-tax-clarity
Buy BitCoins. Write record as investment. Keep record more than 1 year. (No one will ask you how you actually keep the BitCoin - your wallet.dat will enough as proof, auth interesting fiat bookkeeping record only - by law)

P.S. I'm not accountant, but this is basic of taxation. You need to ask your accountant for details.

P.P.S. VAT calculation . Cost without VAT 10000. VAT 20% = 2000 Cost with VAT = 12000. Cost without VAT 20% = 7500. VAT 1500. Cost with VAT = 9000. Reverse calculation - if VAT 20% - use 6 as divider to find VAT. For example, you can use http://vatcalconline.com