Quote from: akwfleaspirit on July 08, 2013, 11:46:53 PM

Quote from: Fireball on July 04, 2013, 09:43:40 AM

Another trader, who says "September has to be above $100 even if spot is $30 lower". Sorry guys, you have to be cautious. Contango and backwardation are normal, and you have to take additional care when trading with leverage.

Trading with leverage provides the ability to get higher profit, however it also means that your loss may be higher.

"Contango" and "backwardation" are real words, and they are used constantly on the icbit site, along with "arbitrage" to explain any unusual price move, but those words are a smokescreen and the actual meanings have nothing to do with the price moves.

icbit is running a complex scam that has stolen a lot of bitcoin from naive traders. Already three people have posted on the scam and more will be following.

The rats that steal bitcoin from small players need to be exposed and cursed.

I have to say, I don't think your views are particularly well thought out, or widely held.

I have used ICBIT for some time and whilst the platform has obvious problems (such as the ability to weald a disproportionate influence over the clearing range adjustment), I have not been scammed, and in general my profits/losses have correlated with the trend in underlying price movement.

I have read your accusation thread linked to above, and your assumptions about what the 'normal' futures premium for BTC should be are simply wrong. Sure the contango/premium reached 150 USD in March when BTC appeared to be running away like an unstoppable train and all the dinner menus read bear soup, but Fireball has made no secret about the fact he was unhappy with that situation and the risk it posed to his platform due the way counterparty loss is managed (the validity of which was demonstrated during the ugly counterparty contract liquidations which occurred during the subsequent March crash). It was also no secret that Fireball has been publically reaching out for market makers, citing the large arbitration opportunities available as an incentive. Combined with the recent slide in BTC which has deterred many bulls from making further long investments it is not at all surprising that contango has significantly retracted and in some cases we have seen backwardation.

I also think it is reasonable that if you no longer meet the margin requirement for a position, then your position should be liquidated. If that means listing your assets for sale at an attractive price then so be it, ICBIT do not close out your long position by buying your assets from you (right or wrong, this is their stated business model) they are listed for sale to other platform users, and If there are no corresponding bids/asks to cancel out against I would expect them to be priced to reflect the need for a quick sale in order to preserve the risk of loss to others. As a trader exposed to the risk that your losses may affect my profit, I EXPECT this safeguard.

ICBIT is a small platform and certainly high volume traders can heavily influence the market prices, but this is life, you will find the same situation within any tradeable asset market. The way you have simply jumped to the conclusion that losses = conspiracy = ICBIT are out to rob us all (and then started throwing public accusations around) is not cool.

I could be wrong and Fireball may have some scheme in action designed to relieve you of your assets, but I don't believe this is the case, he once described the ICBIT venture to me as a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I believe this is how he sees it, as something he cares about and wants to see succeed.