Quote from: Flying Hellfish on December 24, 2017, 01:39:10 PM

Quote from: Astargath on December 24, 2017, 01:06:52 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 24, 2017, 01:03:17 PM

Quote from: Astargath on December 24, 2017, 10:15:25 AM

Quote from: Vod on December 24, 2017, 05:05:47 AM

Quote from: BADecker on December 24, 2017, 03:51:28 AM

God is the maker of all things, because all things are machines in one way or another.

Badecker would say that's impossible, since a god cannot make himself and can't be the effect (caused by) something else.

Take away god, all you have left is the theory of evolution - it hasn't be proven wrong yet in billions of scientific observations.

Cool

Badecker contradicts himself all the time like:

Free will but also everything is determined.
Everything has a cause but god doesn't.
Scientific theories are not known to be true, asks me to prove something by telling him if there is a scientific theory of that something.

He is just going insane, I think.

Now you are simply talking fud.

The free will of man is only free will. It doesn't connect to mans' capabilities. God, who is outside of cause and effect, looks at mans' free will choices, and then goes back to the Beginning, and adjusts the universe, using cause and effect to change the universe according to the free will of mankind, and the objectives that He, God, has.

Cool

Any proof for any of that? Why is god ''outside'' of cause and effect? If free will of humans is not connected to their capabilities, then why are they punished/rewarded for it?

By BADeckers own words god is supernatural. By definition the supernatural requires belief in something not of the natural world...

As we have seen very clearly we can not have a rational natural science discussion when the supernatural is involved.

So another question BAD, is god supernatural? A simple yes or no would be great!

It's clear that badecker wont ever be convinced of anything that he is not already convinced of. I'm simply arguing with him because it's fun and hopefully helps people that are actually genuinely interested in these topics without being extremely biased.