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God is the maker of all things, because all things are machines in one way or another.

Badecker would say that's impossible, since a god cannot make himself and can't be the effect (caused by) something else.

Take away god, all you have left is the theory of evolution - it hasn't be proven wrong yet in billions of scientific observations.

Cool

Badecker contradicts himself all the time like:

Free will but also everything is determined.
Everything has a cause but god doesn't.
Scientific theories are not known to be true, asks me to prove something by telling him if there is a scientific theory of that something.

He is just going insane, I think.

Now you are simply talking fud.

The free will of man is only free will. It doesn't connect to mans' capabilities. God, who is outside of cause and effect, looks at mans' free will choices, and then goes back to the Beginning, and adjusts the universe, using cause and effect to change the universe according to the free will of mankind, and the objectives that He, God, has.

Cool

Any proof for any of that? Why is god ''outside'' of cause and effect? If free will of humans is not connected to their capabilities, then why are they punished/rewarded for it?

Are you really asking if you have free will or not? Do you suddenly think that you don't have free will? Are you admitting to artificial free will in yourself? After all, cause and effect has been proven. So, any free will that you have must be artificial, right?

God is outside of C&E because He made it to be that way.

If mankind is punished for using His free will incorrectly, it is because he essentially asked for the punishment by using his free will the way he did. Consider the pain punishment you will get if you get your hammer, and smash you hand with it. Or, get a gun and shoot yourself in the gut, and then ask why you punished yourself. Poor God. He was only giving you what you asked for by your free will, but then you go out and blame Him for using your free will in a wrong way that gives you punishment.

God is such a giving "person," and He loves you so much, that He wants to give, give, give to you. But you are such an evil person that when you ask for bad things, and you get punishment, you blame God for it. In the judgment, God will wake you up to your wrong use of your own free will.

Cool

Can't have free will if everything is deterministic as you claim (aka having a known cause) ''
God is outside of C&E because He made it to be that way.'' HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THOUGH, you are claiming things for the sake of it, where is your evidence?

Since you are unable (more likely unwilling) to understand what I have shown you over and over, why would you accept evolution as reality? Is it because evolution theory is so complex that you can't follow it, and that is why you worship it as reality?

If God were within C&E, science would have found some little bit of Him by now. Especially considering anything that is part of C&E that is big enough and complex enough to cause the whole, complex universe, would have been found already if it were part of the universe.

You seem to be unwilling to put your thinking cap on and understand what is going on.

Evolution is a big fat hoax.

Cool

I accept evolution because there is a ton of evidence for it. ''If God were within C&E, science would have found some little bit of Him by now'' Why? How do you know?
''Especially considering anything that is part of C&E that is big enough and complex enough to cause the whole, complex universe, would have been found already if it were part of the universe.'' Why? How do you know?
How do you know they just haven't find him and he is indeed part of the universe (if he exists, of course) And why is not finding any single piece of proof of god, evidence for god?
You seem unable to prove that everything has a cause, so you lost, again.

You forget...

Everything is moving in the universe, because absolute zero is not quite attainable.

Movement means action.

Action means existence of reaction - Newton's 3rd Law.

This means that there is cause and effect in everything, which means there are programmed changes, not random mutations like Evolution theory says.

However, if absolute zero were attained somewhere in the universe, it wouldn't be in an evolving mutation. Absolute zero means no movement. No movement means no change... no mutation.

Evolution is a hoax.

Cool

Nice analogy but it's wrong. It doesn't matter if everything is moving, what matters is the cause of the movement and you can't prove that all the things moving are caused by something instead of causeless. Besides motion is a relative concept, so you are never "moving" but only "moving with respect to something".

You still need to prove everything has a cause and also prove that god doesn't have one and also prove god exists. Man you have a lot to do.

Thank you for pointing out that evolution and evolution theory doesn't have any causeless effect evidence, to say nothing about proof.

Evolution is a hoax.

Cool

ou still need to prove everything has a cause and also prove that god doesn't have one and also prove god exists. Man you have a lot to do.

According to dawkins texts, we know what you say is true. all these cells developed to become rocks and some developed to become fish, later dinosaurs, monkeys, water, cosmos and other evolution figures. They automatically developed them selves and I believe we will continue to evolve to become three handed and more intelligent capabilities. Evevn unicors will develop at some point in time but it will take billions of years to evolve an ant from a whale according to darwins texts. You have a lot to learn from this belief

Since nobody has seen any of it happen, and since it all fits the creation model better than the evolution model...

Evolution is a hoax.

Cool

but you can't see it because it took billions of years to become true. darwin told us to believe and thats why we are studying his teachings in school these days because we are so advanced. we don't have to listen to other any more because this is the new stage of evolution in our intelligence