Quote from: BADecker on December 31, 2017, 10:49:27 PM

Quote from: Astargath on December 31, 2017, 12:42:26 PM

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Quote from: Astargath on December 31, 2017, 10:43:25 AM

Quote from: BADecker on December 31, 2017, 12:08:46 AM

Quote from: Astargath on December 30, 2017, 05:56:41 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 30, 2017, 05:12:01 PM

Quote from: Astargath on December 30, 2017, 05:07:06 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 30, 2017, 05:04:30 PM

Quote from: Astargath on December 30, 2017, 04:54:35 PM

So now we are back to cause and effect? Evolution does fit cause and effect because as you said god has no cause therefore everything he did is random.

Again, you show your deceptiveness. Just because we don't know much about the nature of God, doesn't mean that He doesn't use cause and effect, even if He, Himself, had no cause. It doesn't mean that He doesn't use random, either. But nature shows that random doesn't exist within it, simply by the fact that nature's cause was God.

Cool

And since god has no cause it renders everything random unless you now claim god has a cause. If the cause of everything is ultimately a causeless cause then everything is truly random.

God having no cause is simply something that shows that God is outside of the universe. C&E is a universe thing.

Cool

But you are not following the logic. Say a computer has a cause, the human that made it and the human itself has a cause and so on until god which is the cause of everything, right? However because god has no cause, as you claim, that makes everything else random in the sense that everything was created randomly by something with no cause. It doesn't matter that the computer had a cause because ultimately what made the computer exist in the first place is something without a cause therefore random. That's why evolution exists because mutations are essentially random.

Why do you assume randomness? It's not logical to say that something outside of the universe necessarily follows or doesn't follows laws - has or doesn't have randomness - but certainly not laws of the universe. If it were the laws of the universe that it followed, it would be part of the universe.

The closest that we easily, scientifically see within the universe, that doesn't follow the laws of the universe as we know them, is "nothing." We don't really know what the laws of empty space - nothing - are. We understand all kinds of laws regarding the material and energy that exist within the empty space of the universe. But the laws of the empty space itself have not been clearly defined. If someone does know, he isn't expressing it very well.

How much less can we understand if God, outside of the universe altogether, has laws or not, and what they might be, except when He reveals them to us?

Cool

You claimed god has no cause, though, didn't you? If something has no cause it means is random, I'm not assuming anything, I'm simply following your logic.

What caused the random and what effect did it have?..

Has anyone fell over?..So why did you fall over if no random..But we know people fall over..

We know things evolve but just like falling over that's how the random works..

I am not telling you Astargath i am just adding to get it into badeckers head..

I don't know, badecker just doesn't make much sense anymore, he is now just desperately trying to hold his position.

First, he argued evolution is impossible because some things show that it is impossible. I debunked them.
Then he said that because everything has a cause, mutations cannot be random so I said, if everything has a cause then we are just going to have infinite regression, this has a cause, this cause has a cause and so on for infinity and it doesn't solve anything.
Then he said that ''god'' which he claims is the creator of everything actually has no cause, which violates his whole argument of ''everything has a cause''.
If his argument is based on everything having a cause then he is actually saying that evolution is true because he said himself that there is something without a cause and furthermore that ''something'' caused everything, rendering everything random intrinsically.

I'm honored, that you think enough of me and my points to consider me like this. However, it makes you look awfully foolish to have to consider me rather than the topic. And especially when you are making me look like some kind of a professionally thinker that has made a mistake. Your dependence on me is amazing. But, I guess it's all you have since...

Evolution has been proven to be a hoax.

Cool

Yeah, that doesn't really respond to what I said. Happy new year badecker.