Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 15, 2013, 09:57:11 PM

Sorry there is nothing libertarian about the confiscation and redistribution of private property by the state under the threat of violence.

Don't take it the wrong way but if you can't realize the obvious logical fallacy then you are merely "libretarian" in name only. Because it is the "cool, edgy, nonconformist" shade of Republican.

http://splicer.com/2011/07/18/wino

Come on, back off a bit. It is, I believe, possible to agree in general principle and disagree on specific issues. I used to go to county fairs and other public gatherings in the hot sun to hand out Nolan charts for my local Libertarian Party and talk to people about the talking points. And what we always said was, if you're on the left half, you're liberal. If you're on the right half, you're conservative. If you're on the top half, congratulations, you're a libertarian. And of course, the bottom half of the diamond is authoritarian.

I still describe myself as libertarian from time to time. I've voted in seven presidential elections, and voted for the LP candidate four of those times. I read Reason magazine and I'm in favor of scrapping the vast majority of the IRS in favor of the FairTax. To the vast majority of America (perhaps the world) I am an extremist wingnut. Yet I get called Libertarian In Name Only most times I have conversations with other libertarians because I support taxpayer-funded education like Thomas Jefferson did. And I believe in federalism; I'm much more liberal (in the modern sense) when it comes to local decisions than I am regarding the State and much more willing to consider spending at the state level than I am the Federal Government. So that argument about pointing a gun at my neighbor to pay for the local library always comes up and I'm judged a very unlibertarian libertarian.

First, I don't buy it. Reasonable people can disagree about what parts of the multiple governments we live under ought to be dismantled, and believing in keeping one of them ought not be cause for alienating someone who is fundamentally an ally.

Second, it's the wrong conversation to have. Should we do away with welfare programs? Well, maybe. I'll even say probably. Should we do away with them immediately and suddenly? I don't think so. Do we have threats to liberty that loom more menacingly? Oh yeah. Picking winners and losers and creating moral hazard on the individual level is damaging, but it does help some people, too. Picking winners and losers to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars of corporate welfare could be done away with like tearing off a band-aid. No one would notice the difference except the people who are becoming billionaires on the public teat. Never mind the surveillance states we now live in with militarized police. There is a matter of priority here.

So while I saw the bit about "libertarian" and "welfare" in the same sentence and did a double-take too, I'd like to take that poster's word for it that she or he is a libertarian.