Quote from: firefop on July 17, 2013, 05:24:17 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on July 03, 2013, 09:48:28 PM

Quote from: Zanatos666 on July 03, 2013, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: Mota on July 03, 2013, 09:33:10 PM

All sales are final is in itself illegal. As long as they can't deliver the item on the day you want your refund they have to give you the refund. That is common business pratice and even law in some countries...

Any good lawyer or judge will tell you its all in the wording, and BFL uses it well. And I quote " Bitforce SC (ASIC) products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 2 months or more after order. All sales are final."

The statement of "2 months or more" makes denying you a refund legal. The only way it becomes illegal is if they never deliver the product....ever. If they discontinue the item and say that it will never ship, THEN you are legally owed a refund. But, when you paid for your item, they essentially told you it would take at least 2 months. They never promised before a certain time frame.

Some people have been able to successfully get refunds, and that is totally at the companies discretion. Its no different that buying a product with a warranty, and then that product breaking after that warranty has expired. They company promised that under normal use, their product will last ATLEAST that long. Anything beyond that, they do not have to fix/repair, but if they choose to do it then thats their own discretion. Same also applies to returns and countless other policies in place everyday.

Dude...

You and BFL may want us all to believe this but until a customers order physically ships it appears according to the FTC that the company must issue a prompt refund when the customer asks for a refund for ANY reason.

Just because their ToS is against FTC regulations doesn't mean it's OK to break those regulations because you put it in your ToS LDO.

(Bolded in mine)

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customers consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customers consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

The way I read this BFL is clearly in violation of the FTC mail and telephone order merchandise rule (punishable by the FTC suing them for up to $16,000 per incident).

Your turn, please post some evidence of BFL's no refund policy being legitimate.

Reading comprehension is my friend... I'd be happy to introduce you if you'd like to meet up.

Item 1: any option to cancel: There is no option for canceling in the sales contract, it specifically states non refundable. An Option refers to a provision in the contract allowing... etc.
Item 2: concerns company initiated action - does not apply.
Item 3: concerns company initiated action - does not apply.
Item 4: nobody consented to any sort of 'definite delay' - bfl ship time has always been "later"
Item 5: doesn't apply since no definite deliver date ever established.
Item 6: concerns company initiated action (aka rolling up) - does not apply.

My advice to you would be - stop trying to invoke the ftc - you obviously don't understand enough about contract law to have any hope of interpreting their regulations.

As K9 politely pointed out you couldn't be more wrong. Consumer protection laws are quite clear and quite old.

Lets ignore for one second all your points except #4 & 5. By your own definition BFL has required customers to wait for an "indefinite" delay (of course if you read the rule you would know that you must provide a definitive delivery date and 2 months or more is not definitve therefore it would fall under the indefinite delay clause). One of the things REQUIRED by the company if the are asking for and receive an indefinite delay is the following.

a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship.

According to the FTC BFL is breaking their requirements by not TELLING the customer they have the RIGHT cancel an order ANY time until you ship.

There is no room for ambiguity with their statement. BFL MUST TELL the customer they have the right to cancel the order and when the order is cancelled they MUST refund. BFL is not only telling their customer the exact opposite of what the FTC tells them they must say but they are also doing the opposite of what is required by not providing the refund.

Sir, my reading comprehension and understanding of consumer protection laws is OK, yours on the other hand?? IF this ends up with the FTC or the courts BFL doesn't have a leg to stand. Your inability to understand this does not change to facts as they are.