Quote from: Spendulus on January 10, 2018, 03:53:50 AM

Quote from: Xynerise on January 09, 2018, 04:55:00 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on January 09, 2018, 12:27:15 PM

Quote from: Xynerise on January 09, 2018, 06:25:59 AM

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If you want lower fees then use segwit and tell others to use it also.

Segwit does not solve the fee problem. This is simply mis information. A reduction in fees of 30-40% is not material.

To rephrase your statement: "Reduction of fees does not solve the fee problem."

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The levels of fees have utterly destroyed large parts of the bitcoin economy, and segwit does not change that. Cutting fees to 1/10 of current levels does not change this.

Fees would have to go to 1/100 - 1/1000 of current levels for the old bitcoin economy to arise again.

Segwit DOES cause fee reduction in the long run: because segwit transactions are smaller, more of them can fit in a block.

To better illustrate the point, assume that all transactions in the block are segwit transactions with 1 input and 1 output.
There will be ~12,195 transactions that can be contained in that block, compared to ~5,208 non segwit transactions of the same type

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I'm talking buying beers, pizzas, tipping on line, Starbucks gift cards, etc.

You forgot to add coffee...

Please read before you post. But I'll repeat and rephrase.

Even if Segwit enables reductions in fees by 30-70%, this does not solve the problem with Bitcoin's fees having killed the entire ecosystem of transactions in the 0.01-$100.00 price range.

However, should Segwit enable more transactions and hence fees tend downward, strong evidence exists that a huge latent demand would enter in and simply push the fees back up. The resulting equilibrium would be something like double the activity with fee levels the maximum that would be tolerated by an open market in such conditions.

LN does seem to address this issue because people are "able to transact with bitcoin at low fees and huge volume." Although they are not interacting with the blockchain, end users don't care. The nerdy crypto nerds want to go in and buy their coffee with Bitcoin.

I am so sick of the whining about the pizza, beers and coffee...technologies cannot be built over night ! I have a simple solution for everyone for now - I repeat: for now ! Go buy your beers and pizza with the fiats- you've been doing that for hundred and thousands of year. Another six months or a year will not hurt anybody!

And why the heck are you in such a hurry to validate and confirm the stupid coffee and beers ?? Hold your horses it will come soon enough...let's start with the higher priorities - like decentralization and keeping the big governments and the bankers away from our money !! The whole reason why we are all here in the first place isn't it ??

Same as I don't get why we so absolutely need smarter contracts ?? Yes, I understand it would be nice to have...but people: prioritize yourself of what is more important ! You cannot have it all - at least not right now - soon - soon !!

Here are the key words: priorities and patience !!!