Quote from: ProfMac on July 24, 2013, 02:37:16 AM

Quote from: mem on July 24, 2013, 02:09:51 AM

Quote from: ProfMac on July 23, 2013, 12:35:21 AM

Quote from: jermwerty on July 22, 2013, 11:31:51 PM

Quote from: mem on July 22, 2013, 07:41:09 AM

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

To be fair:

My Batch #2 Avalon had three pools configured by default with FAILOVER configured. The first two pools appeared to be the internal testnet pools. The third pool was this eligius pool.

Based on the flat line from 2nd June - 10 July its not like "they ran these for a month".

I don't understand any reason why they should throw away perfectly good hashes. What is the objection if the test is on a live pool, especially if we can all see it? We know that the machines work, and that a lot of them existed last weekend (10 days ago).

hello ProfMac,

lets put this simply - Yifu publically stated they would not mine on main net with clients hardware.
Secondly, the hardware is not his nor does it belong to his company - the company was bankrolled by the early investors/ preorders - they have no right or expectation to get free hashes on clients machines.

This is a very simple point.

Put simpler, Yifu stated they would not mine, people invested with this in mind, turned out Yifu is a blatant liar.

Yes, it is a simple way to view the situation.

There is a story in Texas that a Ranger asked a man, in broken Spanish, if he had a horse. The man said no, and the Ranger shot him dead as a liar and a criminal. It turns out that the man was innocent and had answered truthfully. There is still bad feeling along the border about this incident. In Spanish, there are two words; the analogy that carries into English is asking a man if he has a bull, and then shooting him because he has a cow and answered "no."

As to ownership, here are some choices:
1. The ownership is not defined until the machine passes QC, then it belongs to the assigned customer. The customer gets a working machine no matter what manufacturing difficulties arise. The quality variance is small, the time variance is high.
2. The ownership is assigned early, perhaps as soon as the parts for one single board are identified. The customer gets whatever is made, working or not. The time variance is small, the quality variance is high.

No one can make the quality and the time variance both small.

What the community can do, however, is be so vocal and demanding that venture capitalists, who are risk adverse; and entrepreneurs, who do not know how long innovative things will take, both view the bitcoin arena as high risk.

Nice story, unfortunately it does not apply here.
Yifu insisted several times quite adamantly they did not use clients equipment to mine nor did they mine themselves. This is a blatant lie, there is no excusing it or explaining it as a misunderstanding. Further more he and his company were mining to the detriment of their investors, showing an absolute lack of respect for the very people that helped bank roll his company.

The stated they would not mine on main net, it has been proven without a doubt they do and continue to do so.

This is not a case of "did you mine ?, yes but with other hardware".
This is a case of "we mined using client/investor funded hardware before the client/investor had a chance of earning their ROI.

This is not a case of a language barrier.
where poor Yifu assumed that all the start up capital he was provided with was for him to piss away at his discretion and the greedy clients were asking for the moon when told they would get a working ASIC delivered in N Months.

Yifu has revealed himself to be someone who lies to anyone whenever it is convenient and as such no longer has the credibility to be trusted further.

Lets compare apples to apples for a moment here.

Yifu while being good ar PR has been proven to be a a liar and depending on your view of things a thief.

BFL_Josh An Angry, aggressive and outspoken individual who I believe has been conned into being the bigger fool for sonny. That being said, I have yet to catch Josh out in any blatant lies at worst he could be said to be an asshole who is blindly and fatally optimistic about his companies performance.

It truly saddens me, BFL had set the bar so low that I felt avalon could only go up - boy was I shocked when Yifu decided to 1 up BFL_Josh in douchebaggery.