Quote from: SgtSpike on July 24, 2013, 05:03:06 AM

Quote from: jordaninthesky on July 24, 2013, 04:13:28 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on July 23, 2013, 07:41:52 AM

Quote from: darkmule on July 23, 2013, 07:36:48 AM

Currently, people getting their devices can probably expect some profit on them (at least if they didn't pay in BTC back before BTC went through the roof).

No one paid "in BTC". They paid in USD with BTC. It is as useless to compare an investment in BTC with an investment in a mining machine as it is to compare an investment in gold mining equipment with an investment in gold itself. Hindsight is 20/20, and no one knew that BTC would be worth as much as it is today when they ordered mining equipment with the price at $5. They chose to invest in mining equipment instead of Bitcoin itself, while Bitcoin itself has shown itself to be the more profitable investment. Both investments have proven to be profitable - just because the profit would have been higher in one investment does not mean the investment in the other is a loss.

This is wrong. Bitpay allows the merchant to chose the conversion after the fact ($ or BTC, or both). If the BTC was converted entirely to $ then it was, in fact, by BFL's election; nobody else's. (aka BFL is entirely liable for this decision) I know that sounds like lawyer speak, whomever, but what it really means is simply, BFL chose to convert the BTC to $ and thus lose the value on their own. Everyone who spent BTC for devices, paid BTC for devices. There isn't any way around it after the fact. None of your terms, as illegal that they might already be, touches this point.

Lukejrk - Sorry for the misidentification, but you are still an asshat to suggest that because enron existed, people get raped, etc, such is life. Fix it or gtfo.

I was simply refuting the point that people who paid in BTC are failing to make a profit. Purchasers of BFL miners who paid with BTC will still make a profit, at least according to the definition of profit used by every businessperson in the world. It is inaccurate to say that people who purchased using BTC will not make a profit compared to people who paid with USD. Both types of purchasers used the same amount of value to buy the miners, both will make a profit, and both could (likely) have had a greater profit had they simply invested directly in BTC instead of buying miners.

I was refuting the notion that "nobody paid with BTC". It's an absurd notion.

Regardless how you measure the bottom line, the promises made versus what was delivered have both heaven and hell between them. People who paid with BTC lost an immediate opportunity, but I'm sure they won't mind waiting an exponential to infinite amount of time to mine their 200 BTC back, in sight the ever increasing difficulty. Considering, too, that there is a direct correlation between BTC and $ in this transaction, the fluctuations in trade values have to be included in the calculations as well.