Quote from: SgtSpike on July 25, 2013, 05:10:08 AM

Quote from: jordaninthesky on July 25, 2013, 02:05:07 AM

I thought the point was that BFL claimed capacity to deliver. $, BTC, or any other form of payment should not be "cashed out" to be "spent", else the thing turns into a ponzi scheme and they can't pay everyone.

They are appealing to customers that don't exist yet at the expense of everyone else, using stupid excuses, (often the same excuse over and over), to "justify" the delay of shipment, with assertive self-righteous standing that they aren't responsible for your delay in satisfaction. Do you guys remember when BFL were going into detail about how they were going to "future-proof" their asics? What does that mean standing next to the notion that "BTC is gambling, our stuff could be garbage tomorrow, no refunds"?

Seriously, you maybe hashing right now... But what you paid for was an experience to be had last year. If that had happened, you would not be here trying to defend BFL, as well as yourself for settling for "kind of shitty". You'd be out on the country side sharing the gospel of btc, with your fancy sportcar, meanwhile plunging money into stocks for infinite power engines.

Just saying... A lot has changed, and the original product sold was not the product delivered, and for 98% that isn't even the case yet.

I'll grant you that. But it doesn't make BFL a scam. People were still able to get a refund at any time if they weren't satisfied with BFL's progress.

Quote

Also, if you pay from another country, and your warranted a refund, the money you get back, is your own currency, and for the same amount.

The money you get back is your own currency, but NOT the same amount. It is whatever amount makes up the same purchasing value at the time of purchase. Someone who pre-ordered one of Tom's ASIC's (forgot what they were even called at this point) and paid with Euros on a credit card was actually refunded a slightly different amount, based on the latest exchange rate. And it was a refund amount dictated by the credit card company, not by Tom, because it was a charge-back.

This just further proves the point that businesses generally consider the listed purchase price to be the price of the product, irrelevant of how other currencies might fluctuate against it.

It appears as though PayPal has a different policy and that they use conversion rate at time of purchase, so there is precedent for this type of refund.

Paypal currency conversion policy:
https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp;jsessionid=rV0JKsnTq3Z197277Pg2sQ4mJ1HJWQ5xpxnJnzGxvW9J1FhW03yL!-1588418?t=solutionTab&ft=homeTab&ps&solutionId=163394&locale=en_GB&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=GB&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9012
Refunds are performed using the exchange rate which was current at the time of the original payment.

I don't think paypal does this out of the kindness of their hearts, I wonder if it's a legal requirement and I would be curious to see an official credit card companies policy rather than your claim that is how CC companies work (I am by no means saying they don't do it, I would personally just like to see something from a CC company to have it validated).

This thread had a somewhat interesting derail on this topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236794.msg2542356#msg2542356