Quote from: Shaltuum on July 28, 2013, 01:10:10 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on July 20, 2013, 03:14:28 AM

Quote from: Shaltuum on July 19, 2013, 08:13:53 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on July 19, 2013, 04:48:21 PM

Quote from: RodeoX on July 19, 2013, 01:18:50 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on July 19, 2013, 04:14:19 AM

Who arms criminals with guns? Why, gun owners and gun sellers, of course. Nobody else.

Thieves arm criminals of course.

Assisted by gun owners. Definitely not assisted by those who don't own guns.

The Newtown shooter was armed by his mother. The Aurora shooter was armed by gun sellers. The Columbine shooters were armed by gun owners. All criminals who have guns get their guns through a path which originates from gun sellers or gun sellers to gun owners.

What's worse, virtually every one of those gun owners who gave up their guns to criminals go out buy more guns. Thus the escalation of guns to 300 million guns in this country, which is the problem.

Irresponsibility of gun owners and gun sellers are the reason for the arming of criminals.

Criminals are armed in Russia almost as equally well, even though Russia has very strict gun control laws.

That would likely be case #1, 2 or 3.

1. Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively puts guns in criminals' hands.
2. Ineffective laws enforced effectively puts guns in criminals' hands.
3. Effective laws enforced ineffectively puts guns in criminals' hands.
4. Effective laws enforced effectively keep guns out of criminals' hands.

This is an old tired, argument. "It's not the system that is wrong, its just how it's applied". The system is as good as the results it produces in practice. And so far, from what I've seen, gun control doesn't prevent criminals from arming themselves, regardless of how good in theory it's supposed to work.

The system is awful. Hardly an old tired argument.