Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 29, 2013, 03:08:26 PM

Quote from: AMD FTW on July 29, 2013, 02:50:29 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 29, 2013, 02:44:45 PM

Quote from: AMD FTW on July 29, 2013, 02:39:38 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 29, 2013, 02:16:04 PM

Quote from: AMD FTW on July 29, 2013, 01:51:45 PM

Quote from: Wayne_Chang on July 29, 2013, 12:58:27 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 29, 2013, 11:53:40 AM

iikun... if you call him you can see that he occassionally clicks away a call. He reads ticket headers but getting an answer is nearly impossible.

Wayne_Chang... i think that is your logic and i dont understand it. I asked for a miner refund because the long delay for batch 3 is so big that i dont believe anymore to get the buying price back. Thats not the case with the chips. I didnt ask for a refund for the chips. I ordered chips because not much can go wrong. Now having the chips delayed because of an independent product isnt ok. It doesnt help the b3- buyers anyway when you see the difficulty. So why should the next group of customers get problems?

Think about it just like we took train from same place to same destination. Your ticket was 1 hour earlier than mine. But the train delayed 1 hour. When the train arrived staition, the conductor let me go first just because you was already delayed but I didn't. Do you think this logic is right or wrong?

The comparison with the trains doesn't work because the comparison is wrong. A better comparison would be if one person arrives via train and the other arrives by plane. The airport misplaces the luggage the passenger had brought along the plane. Is it fair for the airport hub to hold the train arrivals until they find or unload the passengers luggage that was misplaced on the flight. Of course not, the person that traveled by train shouldn't be delayed or penalized.

If the Avalon chips came in for Avalon B3 order and also the Avalon chips for only chip orders, then those should go out ASAP. It's not ethically fair to hold up chips for one group when the chips are ready for both the Avalon units and DIY boards. Whether its a hold up on pcbs, other parts or assembly its not fair for the DIY avalon chip projects out there. This will also have a negative effect on them since the next generation chips will be coming out down the road which also cuts into them as well.

Maybe a good practice would be to return some of the premined Avalon asic income that was generated from testing the units and use those to partially credit B3 people's purchase.

By that metaphor, one assumes that the Batch #3 chips were in fact always intended by Bitsyncom to have been manufactured as part of the mass chip order for the cumulative ordering of all the bulk chips, or that subsequently Bitsyncom has decided it would be prudent to save money in waiting to place one huge chip order to cover all sales, as opposed to a required smaller run specifically for Batch #3. Which at Batch #3's significantly increased price point, priced to meet promised returns from proposed difficulty at a guaranteed delivery date, wayy ahead of the bulk chip delivery, would be a gross misappropriation of Batch #3 buyers' funds.

In essence it looks like Batch #3's chips were manufactured at the exact same time as all the bulk orders, so any proposed price point based on return on investment due to their assumed future difficulty, which at the time never included such massive quantities of bulk chips, was totally false...

Was there a promise that stated in writing that stated Avalon batch 3 units investment would be paid off and if so, in what time frame. That's part of the risk with investing in hardware and supporting the network. It might now always be in ones best interest and ones rate of return might not be as fast as one thought.

Wasn't their entire price point explained by Bitsyncom at the time of order to be based on future difficulty at the time of a guaranteed delivery so ROI could be met in a proposed timeframe preceding any profit from there on after...?

Not sure, but that would be pretty gutsy or irresponsible for a company to promise how long it'd take to pay off their hardware especially because of bitcoins price fluctuation and they had no idea how far BFL was behind and how many they could actually assemble and ship on a daily basis.

If you know of a statement, you should link it as I'd be interested in that.

Either way, I'm way more invested in Bitfury's design than my avalon investment.

Have to admit, I'm not 100% I've seen Biysyncom detail the reasoning behind their pricepoint, it may well have been forum users speculating their reasoning for such pricing, I'll have to dig around, so far from googling 'Avalon Batch 3 pricing', and going through some old emails from being a subscriber to their newsletter at the time, there's this from them w.r.t. B#3 price:

Quote

On to batch three, we at Avalon did not even wish to sell another batch. If you recall, our original plan was to produce only one batch, sell chips to thwart the centralization of mining, but due to the lackluster performance of our competitors we are here today as the exact centralization we tried to decouple.

Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 07:36:39 PM

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

The irony being a lacklustre performance in shipping a product they took money for...

Seb posted the link above where Bitsyncom determined B#3's price point;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203745.msg2629734#msg2629734

In any case it's from the FAQ on the official Avalon site;

http://launch.avalon-asics.com/#home

F.A.Qs
the need to know
What form of payment do your accept, and where in the world do you ship?

The only form of payment accepted is Bitcoin, we ship worldwide.

If I purchase Avalon Unit right now when can I expect to receive my unit?

At the time of writing Batch #3 is expect to start shipping early May.

How is each batchs unit price determined?

The price of each unit is the current mining difficulty which at the time of writing, just got readjusted to about 6,695,826. We take that number and multiply it by two ( predicting the network speed will double. ) and calculate the return in a thirty day window, which is about 75 bitcoins. See this site for more details.

How can I find the latest firmware and documentation on the Avalon Unit?

The firmware, documentation and various other information is located on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon

Is there any plan to sell just the ASIC chips themselves and let others build their own units?

Yes, see http://store.avalon-asics.com/?page_id=9605 and https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref