Quote from: cypherdoc on July 30, 2013, 08:27:43 PM

Quote from: Augusto Croppo on July 30, 2013, 08:23:59 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 30, 2013, 07:45:06 PM

Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread.

Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Quote

Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:

PayPal

Bitcoin via Bitpay

Bank transfer

By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'?

my guess is that they wanted to cut the time window down from 60 to 45 days using Paypal instead of CC.

No they wanted the Paypal brand behind them, which has been a ballache since the abuse from BFLs 13 month delay and dodgy eBay fake pre-order listings BFL wouldn't honour. This is why there was the mess with pre-order resale. Each sale had to be okay'd by Sam with transfer of ownership, so there was no recourse with Paypal handling fraudulant sales via eBay. It's also why no sale of KnC products via eBay is legitimate as KnC will not transfer ownership unless you go through them. Also when you apply for a payment processor (say Yalamanchili) and an issuing bank (say IDT) to take cc payments direct you sign contracts in which certain business are excluded, or need x amount of time in existence, or minimum guaranteed monthly purchases. It's a long winded negotiation, with some business models being outright excluded (I imagine pre-orders, I certainly know money lending is). For sure unless you are selling in volume regularly you incur fees, and by volume I mean monthly over say an annual contract. It's why disruptive payment processing start-ups such as Stripe have been a blessing for small online businesses. So Paypal accepts credit cards and works as a cc payment processor regardless of whether you have a Paypal account or not.

Again this was covered before payment was made in the weeks that preceded the pre-orders, as I was demanding cc payment over Paypal, unsure of the protection outside of the 45 days. I had read that some cc issuing banks won't uphold protection when third party payments are used, i.e. Amazon, or Paypal, etc.

In any case I rang my bank. Clearly I won't be sharing a personal conversation with details about my bank account with randoms on a forum, that's for me to hold my bank to should anything go amiss, but that shouldn't stop you from calling yourself. I bank with Barclay's and for sure Barclay's customers are covered. Section 75 of the consumer credit act (UK), states you have up to 6 years to chase. I also read you have upto 180 days to complain subsequent to agreed delivery date, but the lady at Barclay's mentioned 6 years. In any case it's all in the thread prior to and during the time pre-orders opened. I posted all the section 75 stuff.

The protection however is for credit card payments only, and not debit card payment, it's what you pay the usurious interest rates for. Issuing banks all have their own rules underwritten regarding their credit card protection, so you must call and check. Mine was a Barclaycard Platinum, I don't know how that differs from any of their other cards. I record the conversations I have with banks as they and insurance companies will wriggle out of anything they can otherwise, it saves a lot of stress at a latter date. I advise anyone does that as standard practice when dealing with any customer services. Don't know if you're meant to tell them, I tried once and got hung up on, but for sure they always record you 'for training purposes' as the automated message always states. Wink