Quote from: yeemartin on August 07, 2013, 09:24:00 PM

I admit that i don't know ASIC. However I knew that both Avalon and BFL spend more than two months on tweaking their prototype after they received their first batch of chips. Putting chips to the PCB and making them to work per the design specs take time and effort.

Tweaking the PCBs not the chips.

And yes, it was a problem for BFL and Avalon. But for both of them that that was the first ASIC project they'd ever done. ORSoC is an ASIC (and FPGA) design company. Designing ASICs, and the boards for them to go on is all they do.

I don't know what the problem with Avalon was - they sent out Batch 1's pretty early, before February, before B2 was even open for ordering. So their initial production did end up going out on time.. If you had placed a bet on their initial on-spec delivery, you would have won that bet!.

Their later problems came about from their ability to build all 300 units and get them sent out in time, as well as a problem getting their SMT line up and running for the larger batch 2 and 3.

It was really only BFL that had problems with their initial PCB design and had to start over.
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Also, look at Bitfury. Their PCBs seem to work fine (they don't even seem to need heatsinks at all)

The big risk here seems to be production capacity. KnC is outsourcing their physical production to a 3rd company, one we don't know anything about. That is a potential point of failure.

However, when you look at the odds the probability of failure seems low the risk factors are -

1) Their chips will be delayed (out of their control)
2) The chips won't work, or won't work with their planned design
3) The PCB design won't work. So far, only BFL has had a problem with this.
4) There will be a production problem

Regarding #4, Bitfury is only sending out "kits", final assembly has to be done by the customer. KnC's systems are more fully built, but all they're sending is a big metal box with 1, 2 or 4 ASIC modules, plus a simple/cheap controller. The customer is responsible for the PSU.

You seem to be most worried about #2 and #3. For #2, it is a possibility, but for a company that has lots of experience designing ASICs this strikes me as unlikely. Same with #3. And if there is a problem with #3 new PCBs can be designed and manufactured pretty quickly. (From what I understand, BFL actually had to change the packaging on their chips, probably quite expensive)

The other thing to remember: Building ASICs and PCBs isn't some kind of black magic. Obviously things can go wrong if it's something you've never done before. But keep in mind: this is something that happens all over the world all the time. People build ASICs and PCBs and build products around them and ship them out. Every electronic product you own went through this same process.

The idea that it invariably ends in tears and months of delays is just weird. BFL was especially incompetent, and Avalon's problems stemmed from their ability to physically build units not their chip or PCB design. (and now, mail boxes of chips).