Quote from: Ytterbium on August 09, 2013, 05:19:35 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 09, 2013, 04:55:29 AM

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.

i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.

You're not really thinking clearly. Risk is a zero sum game. Obviously it reduces the producers risk to have a no-refunds policy.

The problem is if you reduce the risk for the producer, you increase it for the consumer. Increasing risk means you need a higher risk/reward ratio.

If you order a KnC instead of this you're essentially paying for a "put option" that actually costs nothing if you execute it. Plus, you might actually get your unit sooner, soon enough that it'll make more then the price difference anyway.

Whereas with this you're locked in.

The risk being a chip failure, production delays, as well as (most likely) insane diff.

Just out of curiosity, does HashFast have an estimate for what they think the diff will be when they ship?

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 09, 2013, 05:15:45 AM

if you'd read the thread, there are provisions to protect your investment. i don't want to talk too much about it b/c it's not my place. i'm going to encourage them to do so very soon.

All the "provisions" are internal, which could mean they could just ignore them, or run out of money.

i disagree. i think the risks are reduced for both parties. risk is in the eye of the beholder. committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund. customers jumping in and out of orders during the preorder time period increases workload and inefficiencies. i, as a customer of KNC and Megabig, was exploiting this inefficiency for my own protection/advantage. as i said before, companies get an inflated view of demand while customers are quick to pull the trigger. Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.