Quote from: TMAN on February 04, 2018, 04:46:39 AM

Ok bud, I'll take it as a foul by me. I was wrong.

It takes a big person to stand up and say something like that; most people wouldn't be impressed by this, but I certainly can appreciate the honesty.

Quote from: killyou72 on February 04, 2018, 04:54:38 AM

I just tried to read his posts, and it could be said in a sentence or two.

Just because you use a lot of descriptive words for no reason

Descriptive words exist for a reason. I am not using them frivolously, for the most part, and again I would highly encourage you to attempt at re-writing my posts using only a sentence or two; if you can do so without losing a single iota of meaning or significance then I will cede that I am being a wordy idiot. If you aren't interested in reading more than a couple sentences at a time, then might I suggest that it is your attention span that is at fault here and not my writing style.

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

There is already a place which offers merit bounties for quality posts. It is called the Bitcoin Forum,

I'm aware; yet it would still seem that there are many quality posts being overlooked. If you think that there is nothing we can do to improve the amount/quality of posts currently receiving merit, then I would grant you your point, but there certainly can be positive improvements to be made.

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

As a low-ranked user who has proved efficient at earning merit the normal way, I find such a suggestion extremely discouraging.

Suppose that I spend some hours writing post, Then, I find that joeuser123 received merit I didnt because he entered his post into a merit bounty contest, and I didnt.

There is nothing stopping you from submitting your posts for the public or sources to evaluate as well. It should not discourage users like yourself, rather it should serve to additionally reward the best submitted. Gaining more attention, merit and eyes to the highest quality content while giving examples of what is expected and rewarded.

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

Consider the distorting effects of the system here proposed. Far from improving merit distribution, it draws the limited supply of merit away from organic, natural distribution in the ordinary course of forum discussion, and pools it in a contest (OPs word).

If you thought for even one moment that the proposed idea may be (ahem) meritorious, please reread that paragraph twice.

"Contest" was just one of a few words to try to describe the concept. Competition is by nature meritorious, so you'll have to explain to me how pinning the greatest posts head-to-head is not meritorious or providing an incentive for greater posting quality.That being said, you claim it would draw from a limited supply of merit, but this is incorrect in my estimation. This would not serve as an idea to replace even a significant amount of the merit distribution, rather it would draw out the merit that is currently being unused and has no place in the "organic" distribution, which is inefficient at best.

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

Understand that the whole of the merit system is a bounty program. It cannot perform its function of improving the forum, unless the forum as a whole is treated as one huge merit bounty section.

I am very uncomfortable with the merit giveaway threads..

There is and must be one, and only one proper way to earn merit: By making high-quality, on-topic posts in the forum appropriate for their subject matter.

For the merit system will not achieve its intended purpose unless it operates naturally, organically, rewarding good posts in the ordinary course of forum discussions. You see, you read, you are impressed by a postyou hit the +Merit link. You write, you post (where you would have anyway), you do a good enough job to impress someone elsesomeone else hits the +Merit link.

I am confused; you seem to think that this idea is in anyway suggesting rewarding anything but "high-quality, on-topic posts in the forum appropriate for their subject matter". If you can see this rewarding anything else, by comparing the best posts side-by-side and meriting them (as they rightfully should be merited), then please enlighten me. In my suggestion or any form of it, other than simply giving away merit, you will still see, read, be impressed and then hit "+Merit". You still still write, post, impress someone and receive a "+Merit". You are arguing against my suggestion, but making the case for it at the same time. It fits your criteria of organic by everything you've just laid out. The entire Merit system is a bounty, but can there be no improvements to push the most helpful, most thoughtful, most informative posts to the top of the pile more so?

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

Quote from: EthanB on February 04, 2018, 02:13:58 AM

I am seeing so many negative posts complaining about the system that is meant to really improve things around here.

...by precisely the people who deserve no merit, and will never earn any. Thats a feature, not a bug. Evidently, the system is working exactly as intended:

Quote from: theymos on February 03, 2018, 06:20:54 PM

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up.

(Emphasis is theymos.)

Theymos said "most"; so it would imply that there are some complaints validated by theymos from members that in his opinion should rank up and are not posting garbage. Obviously it is a feature to make the spammers squirm, but to pretend as though there is not a single criticism to be made of the merit system is foolhardy.

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

Merit sources may need to develop more elaborate distribution strategies, given the importance of the task entrusted to them.

This is literally what I'm trying to accomplish, we can obviously improve upon my idea, but we seem to agree about what needs to be done. I see this as the starting point for a more elaborate distribution strategy, but I believe you're shooting it down before you even think it through.

Quote from: tekusa on February 04, 2018, 07:15:45 AM

There is no need of organizing that contest. Such a deserving member will get the merits anyway.

You believe that there is not a single post or member that will go overlooked, do you? Or do you believe that this is acceptable?

Quote from: Lauda on February 04, 2018, 10:49:41 AM

Quote from: The Pharmacist on February 04, 2018, 04:33:14 AM

I gave OP a merit point because he obviously put some thought into his posts, which is more than can be said for 90% of users here.

He's on the SMAS list at the time of writing, thus no merit from me.

This is one of the things that I think is harmful to the merit system. You admit it yourself, you refuse to merit those on the SMAS list, which is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy; if you refuse to even look at the posts of someone on your SMAS list with any thoughtful or serious care then you will never give incentive to the type of posts they should be making. It would seem the system is meant to reward good posts, not avoid rewarding good posts because you don't like something about what they said in a completely irrelevant thread/post(s). That being said, I messaged you about your SMAS list weeks ago, never got a reply. I've done a lot to work towards being removed from your SMAS list, but it doesn't seem like that's something you're interested in accomplishing. It may be the case that you did not intend SMAS to rehabilitate and only intended for it to mark, if this is the case then I understand much better, but if you want any chance at improving these users into what they could be then you shouldn't avoid meriting a thread you otherwise would've because of your list.

Take a page out of this newbie's book :

Quote from: fokinlipat on February 04, 2018, 11:56:19 AM

I focus on the content written in the post irrespective of whether it is made by a popular or "unpopular person".

Quote from: Lauda on February 04, 2018, 10:49:41 AM

Quote from: nullius on February 04, 2018, 05:04:36 AM

There is and must be one, and only one proper way to earn merit: By making high-quality, on-topic posts in the forum appropriate for their subject matter.

I concur. While it may take some time until this filter works as it should (i.e. some people may be posting good posts in sections that are filled with garbage, ergo they are hard to find right now), I don't prefer the giveaways. They create the wrong incentives. I was also thinking about *merit bounties* that are not just about posts (e.g. do X to get Y). We must definitely prevent the system from going into that direction and tag all the participating parties if it comes to that.

I don't know if this is directed at my suggestion or if you are talking about something else, but in any case I am talking about incentivizing the same thing you are concurring with. If I am incentivizing anything other than high-quality, on-topic posts then let me know, because I do not see what you're seeing.

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 04, 2018, 12:35:40 PM

Providing merit food banks doesn't clean out the spamming, or make the good posts more visible.

I'd agree if I was suggesting a merit food-bank. This is not what I am suggesting; I have to 100% disagree, competing for merit in a public thread with 1000's of people reading the posts will certainly make these good posts more visible, accessible and rewarding to write. Merit food bank implies we are handing out welfare merit, when we are talking about handing it out to the best of the best that deserve it. If there are no merit worthy posts submitted, they don't receive merit.

It doesn't clean out spamming, but it dis-incentivizes it to a greater extent.

I know this is a long post, many people may not even read it, but I'm enjoying the conversation even if I'm mainly being shot-down and forced to defend myself like a dying animal. Thanks for the replies, criticism, comments, etc. I wanted to reply to everyone that provoked a response out of me, in case anyone of you are interested.