Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 16, 2018, 01:52:42 AM

now there are two ways to look at the next step:
1. you BUY BACK OUR ERC-20 Token for your NIM coin at a fixxed rate, actually, your are my customer and i dont want kyc from you.

I don't understand why you think this is some kind of vendor/customer relationship.

what kind of relationship is this then?
digital goods got sold. a net Token in my wallet created by you for exchange in ether. it is nothing else than a presale of you token and you should look at this the same way.
you created NET and now you want to buy them back with NIM. i can also sell them for ether if i want to.

Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 16, 2018, 01:52:42 AM

2. we call it exchange, i change my NET Token on Ethereum for NIM on Nimiq. (now i see both scenarios doesnt have to include kyc)
--you really should have collected kyc at the net sale. do it now makes no sense whatsoever. because:
Nimiq Network mainnet goes live.
Nimiq Network continues to create NIM Coin, issued to miners (anonymous users of the nimiq network)

We couldn't have anticipated the current legal environment Blockchain projects are forced to deal with right now. But even though we didn't want to bother users with KYC last year during our Crowdsale, we still added this requirement in the terms you had to agree upon participating:

We may determine, for regulatory compliance purposes, that it is necessary to obtain certain information about you in order to comply with applicable laws or regulations in connection with accepting contributions to create and allocate NET to you or transfer NET to NIM. You agree to provide us such information promptly upon request.

i understand that is difficult times. but it doesnt look like you have the interrest of your investor in mind and only the success of Nimiq which of course means positive for investors.
but like i said. we, the people that brought NET financed your way to Nimiq and now you say sorry some people cant be included in the success and yes nobody expected investor status by buying NET.
but now you ask something very important and special which should be handled with up most care. personal data. the link which i quote said it very clearly. you cannot simply change your user id once its out in the open.
you say its no problem with 3rd party providers? ..... but i get to this later.. lets stay on point...

if someone from the us invested in NET it should be his/her problem, not the problem on Nimiq.
he/she is supposed to know that he/she is not allowed to invest in oversea projects.
you cant be responsible for their action and for this dont have to put any borders on your crowdsale.

there is noone regulating the ico market and why should we let some rules from 2005 to fight terror and money laundering let dictate how this should be handled.
its like i said. to comply with KYC requirements you will have to ASK EVERY USER FOR THEIR DATA not just NET2NIM people. why do you want our data?
you maybe dont know it yet or you cant accept it, but google kyc, you will see.. once you go that route you cannot go back. im just trying to help.

Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 16, 2018, 01:52:42 AM

now if you say you can only exchange NIM for NET if we provide KYC ultimately means that in future you,
HAVE TO get KYC from EACH and EVERY user of the NIMIQ Network because each address holds a share of the networks wealth.
it can only be used if people provide kyc. simple as that. imagen you are the new visa, visa work without documents? no.

No. We are only asking users to complete KYC in order to use NET-to-NIM replacement tool. That is all.

yes but why? i already told you why and you seem to ignore it.
NIM issued by Nimiq Foundation, to use/sell/buy NIM you need kyc or you do not comply with kyc anymore.
you ask some users but not others? how is this helping you or the users? it is not.

Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 16, 2018, 01:52:42 AM

kyc in this case is only a "lets go the save route" for current laws that dont apply to the situation, which may destroy your reputation.

KYC is required at this point to ensure the project complies with regulations in several countries, this is obviously required for our project to be a success which is ultimately our main goal.

this is actually not true and you cannot point me to some law stating that you are required to do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

here are some "guidelines" on german http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2005.309.01.0015.01.DEU
good luck finding them in english because this doesnt seem to have an official number xD
here is the AML/CFT file: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C01046 for US law..

i understand that you want the best for nimiq, but comply with kyc only for the Net2Nim doesnt make sense.
it does mean that each wallet "account" created on Nimiq does need to be kyc compliant.
why dont you do it like some other icos, put a limit for no kyc users. like max 5-10 ether or something.
i really dont see myself selling my id to you for a 3 ether investment which doesnt provide me future shares or something...

Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 16, 2018, 01:52:42 AM

one of the biggest issue is that you want a 3rd party to controll the kyc data.

Using a 3rd party KYC provider is actually the safe a responsible way to go.

no its not, its lazy, cheap, irresponsible and intolerable
how can you guarantee for the safety of the data on a 3rd party server?
how can you guarantee that this 3rd party doesnt steal or sell the data?
how can you guarantee that the server of this 3rd party are not compromised?
do you have any control over the data or the 3rd party company?
i know everybody does this now.. but it doesnt make it right.
paypal has my data, why dont you sell your NET or NIM with paypal?

Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 16, 2018, 01:52:42 AM

your security doesnt matter here. kyc data will be stolen or sold at one point in time.

Now this is just FUD and nonsense. We have carefully selected KYC providers than follow the most strict rules and security standards. This is a delicate part of the the process and of course we are taking it with all seriousness deserved by this matter.

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/worlds-biggest-data-breaches-hacks/
yes its a little fuddy, but better be safe than sorry, people shouldnt play with their id.
currently there are hacks which make every computer in this universe hackable and no patch will ever be able to fix it.
you cannot guarantee for the safty of our data. this 3rd party created in 2010 and maybe vanishes in 2020 with millions of data from icos.
its like i said, ask for kyc from all user or none... why presale only? please explain for people without knowlege about any of that.

Quote from: Nimiq on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 AM

Quote from: polylogic on February 10, 2018, 04:53:51 PM

And here's some insight into what 'KYC' might include: 'it is now commonplace for an individual to have to submit a passport scan, bank statement, and various other documents and to answer a string of questions about their background and the origin of their cryptocurrency. Legolas, for example, requested that investors Provide as much detail as possible about the origin of the BTC.'

https://news.bitcoin.com/kyc-requirements-are-making-icos-riskier-not-safer/

You are again just trying to create FUD. We will not require origin of BTC or any other Crypto. We won't ask any background information to the users, only basic personal information. As I have stated before:

there is a misunderstanding.. i believe origin of btc and other crypto are requirements of AML/CFT.
but this link has very important information for every user
and i quote:
It only takes one failure to expose an individuals data once and for all time. Email and wallet addresses can be changed; passports and driving licenses are permanent

Quote from: Nimiq on February 13, 2018, 05:11:12 PM

In one end we are working with renowned KYC providers who follow the strictest security policies, and on the other, we have top cryptographers in our team, a security expert working with us as our internal auditor and a third-party auditor looking at our code. So is safe to say we care a lot about security. Regarding the information, we are still defining details with our KYC provider but for now I can comment that we are only going to ask personal information about the user. No weird questions or background information.

[/quote]

well, only ask for information is fine.
ask for id is maybe too much.
ask for background of btc is way too much xD
i dont try to spread fud only want people to make the right decision.