Quote from: Bicknellski on August 29, 2013, 02:31:53 AM

Quote from: m3sSh3aD on August 28, 2013, 09:07:48 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on August 28, 2013, 08:58:06 PM

Quote from: millsdmb on August 28, 2013, 08:50:47 PM

Quote from: gmaxwell on August 26, 2013, 01:53:19 AM

The forum is overrun with the hate of the day with various "hardware"(/vaporware) vendors, it has become hard to discuss anything else. Many of the participants are behaving like animals.

I'm sensitive to the risk of suppressing complaints. There have been many scam hardware "vendors" of various degrees. People should be able to communicate about the risks, seek recourse, etc. At the same time, these complaints have reached an intensity where they are self defeating. If you tell me vendor X is a scam I don't know if its because they are or because you're crazy, because you're a shill for another vendor, because you're a shill for them trying to make the complainers look crazy, if you're a miner trying to scare people out of mining, etc. As a warning this information is no longer very helpful.

I have multiple people I know (and have met in person and know not to be socks) begging me to do something about the sad state of this subforum. But I'm at a loss... how do we defeat troll culture when it's taking the form of "concern troll" about concerns we should be careful to preserve? And how can we do it without making me and miningbuddy censors who have to vet every single post?

Does anyone have any great ideas?

Will we continue to accept advertising from buttfuck labs?

This post is really at the center of this thread.

Here's the deal. If I want to discuss bitcoin or mining in a college classroom, I have to think long and hard about using your post, and by extension, this entire thread. It does not matter that all college students use language that is more colorful than yours, the fact is that *I* dare not use that language inside a college classroom.

That leaves the choice of 1) lose one way to introduce bitcoin to an audience that is very good about accepting new ideas or 2) asking for your post to be removed.

1. Is there any reason that you could not have written "Butterfly Labs?"
2. Is there any reason that this question needs to be repeated 1, or 2, or 3, or more dozen times?
3. Can you accomplish your goals by buying an advertisement that says, oh, "Butterfly Labs is 1 year late on delivery" and another that says "Butterfly Labs strongly discourages refunds?" instead of posting vendor hate?

Really dude, get off the high horse (and everyone who thinks 'swearing' is bad) and realise its human expression and isnt bad. If i told you jump off a cliff would you, So why believe it when your told swearing is bad? the word FUCK as more uses than almost any other word out there, and not all are dirrogitive

Do you think kids don't know this shit from the age of 7 or less? It's called making mountains out of moul hills and i see it everywhere about just about everything.

Buttfucker labs is what i and many people call them for good reason, THEY LIKE BUTTFUCKING PEOPLE!

Ah, im outa here, i remember why i stopped coming to these forums now!

The way I see it is we need a much higher horse to for everyone. Playing the muck raking game puts us into the situation of always burying the important information and those acting unethically continue to get away with that behavior. We need to change the whole dialogue and get it off the BAD companies and put the dialogue into the GOOD companies. Meaning we need a subforum to do just that which requires standards to be met and upheld. Otherwise we continue this merry go round.

I would add that there may infact be some fault to lay at the feet of the forum owners / moderators if this comes to a law suit, given that they seem to take no action when there seems to be quite credible evidence that the advertising being posted is in fact very misleading or even outright fraud. What policies does this forum have to protect people from that. I am all for the free market but there is something called truth in advertising for a reason right? Some of the blame for all this acrimony rests squarely on the forum for not doing very much of anything to protect the interest of the users leaving it up to people to rightly and justly rise up and warn others but as always it quickly degrades into what we see since there is a LACK of standards. Ignoring the forum users plight like this is really negligence if you ask me and is tantamount to unprofessionalism.

Bingo.

I waded through pages on BS to find that I should have just read the last page.

The vendors currently have WAY too much bargaining power, to the point where buyers are at best investors and at worst losers with no legal recourse. This forum serves buyers primarily because against such malpractices the only means of effective recourse is sharing of information.

Not doing much of anything is a factor of causality. How? When the forum organizes itself to vote 1000 votes in overwhelming majority to label a certain vendor, what the forum goers are saying is that they would rather stop hating and let the common consensus have their say (sounds terribly bitcoin doesn't it?). The point of this is to clear up the hatred, and waste of space. At the same time it is a very effective means of getting the vendors to clean up their act. Done. Solution right there on your lap. Ready and waiting. For eternity.

So. When the proposition arises that we should stop all the hate and how, I find it terribly odd that only after 8 pages of post has somebody dared to point the finger squarely at the OP.

Or to put in more directly, just do what you're supposed to. If you can't then set up a sub forum for somebody who can.