Quote from: baloo_kiev on August 29, 2013, 01:20:34 PM

Quote from: alchimista on August 29, 2013, 08:48:28 AM

seems like BitSyncom is talking about refunds.
I would start to talk about this: ROI is not possible anymore for me (price of electricity here is really high), and if Avalon gives us a full refund for all the chips, we could start a poll to see.

Quote from: BitSyncom on August 28, 2013, 10:42:35 PM

brb making refund form, I'm done with this.

We should start approaching this possibility, like steamboat.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg3033196#msg3033196

First you were insolent enough to take advantage of t13hydra's mistake and ask for full PCB refund, despite knowing that at least part of the funds were already spent, and t13hydra refunds you with his own coins. Now you dare offering your chips at the price which will never make ROI, obviously looking for some newbie who can't do his own math.

I posted in this thread about 2 weeks ago saying I would really be happy if I could just get back the amount I spent. I guess many people in this group buy felt the same but no one was such a dick like you, requesting full refund.

Please show some respect for t13hydra and the community. Delete your message and fuck off.

1. i choose to order the PCBs after i read the Terms of Service: i wouldn't buy a preorder without the chance to get a refund. I'm not having a profit from someone else errors, it's not insolent, and he told me a part of the funds were spent only after he gave me a refund. I can give back the spent part of my PCBs preorder to Steve, it's not a problem, he just didn't ask for this: but guess what? I'm still here and i'm not escaping with the "stolen refund".
2. i'm selling at 0.075 and you would ask 0.081.I started from 0.081 since i got the refund. I also tried some higher prices before, looking at others ppl pricing. I'm going down day by day. You should acknowledge yourself before writing. You don't know how many times i explained all the risks involved and all the facts about Avalon chips problems and group buys to newbs that didn't accept at the end: so don't throw shit at me without a reason. I couldn't be more honest with buyers.
3. maybe prices of electricity are not the same here and where you live: if you were in my shoes you would be aware that ROI is not possible anymore. Maybe it's better for everyone if we get a refund from BitSyncom. Maybe it's good news to hear that BitSyncom will (maybe) give refunds.
4. seems like you are so angry with me because i've got a refund. I asked for a refund because i'm not alone, and my friends asked me to try. Steve had the opportunity to prove he deserves our trust. So if you feel so uncomfortable why can't you focus about the real reasons? Why should you blame me instead of yourself?
5. please show some respect and be mature. And please explain the difference between: "get back the amount spent" and "requesting pcb refund + selling chips for less then you bought".

EDIT: I would like to share zefirs last announcement with you:

Quote from: zefir on August 28, 2013, 08:19:19 PM

Update: Endgame

With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds.

I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy.

At this stage our options are as follows:

A. sit and wait
That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum
B. demand full refund
The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more.
C. negotiate for compensation
While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon.
D. legal action
Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).

I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM.

So now, i really think we should start acting togheter, in all the group-buyers interest and also Steve's. We should make a poll or something, our orders are all in queue after zefir's, and they are already talking about this. Why wait even more?

Personally, i would try to talk togheter about a possible, also partial refund from avalon: we should then detract t13hydras expenses and split the rest between buyers.

Also: why is every single avalon chips group buy discussing refunds except for this one? It seems really strange to me.