Quote from: ordy on August 29, 2013, 07:27:42 PM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 29, 2013, 05:46:13 PM

Quote from: ordy on August 29, 2013, 12:23:23 PM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 29, 2013, 11:37:35 AM

Bitcoin mining is not a guarantee of profit, only a guarantee of income. People buying mining equipment are exactly like investors buying stock in a company, speculating that they will make more money than they spent. You could have bought a bond (no real comparision, but could substitute BTC here) instead, and had a fair guarantee of income. You could also have just kept mining with whatever equipment you had until electricity costs made it no longer worthwhile and definitely had profit.

missed the nail on this one. we are talking about hardware vendors here - not the 'industry' as a whole. we are not investors in any BTC hardware company when we order hardware. if we were we would have equity stakes and privileges associated with that. in this context the only thing that should be guaranteed (by laws and regs) is that a hardware product purchased by a customer is delivered as advertised (including the time frame). if customers are not receiving the products they should be in, the time that they should, then these forums are one of several means of recourse for customers to use against fraudulent, incompetent, or otherwise non-performing hardware vendors.

No, I actually didn't. I'm talking about the equipment investment and whichever company you buy from doesn't matter. Maybe comparing the purchase of equipment to stock in a company was wrong, yet the premise remains solid. You are speculating that the equipment you are purchasing will make you more money than you spent.

Now, if you want to compare companies, then you have to liken it to horse racing. You're betting your horse will come in first, and if it doesn't you lose. From your statement, you are obviously referring to BFL. Considering their track record with the FPGA, anyone who took the time to read up on them would realize this horse is a long shot. Betting on the long shot can win big, but more often than not, you lose.

In my case, I already knew the horse had lost, so my bet was that they would still finish the race. At the time I made my purchase I had 2 choices... $250 per .333MH or $274 for 5GH. I already had several GPUs running, so I felt the $274 was a better investment even though I figured I would not see it for a long time. I compared 13M difficulty, 28% growth (which the network was at the time) and 5GH. Going with the USB, this would cost me $3,750 for 5GH and after one year I would be at a loss of $613. That sold me... it was better to possibly lose $274 than it was to definitely lose $613.

umm, ya, and missed again. i'm not sure what the purpose is for all of your attempted analogies and metaphors but they are not relevant. the personal stories are cute, but again irrelevant. nobody is saying that the BTC world is not risky, and of course one has to make an educated guess as to where best to put his/her money - which sometimes works out well and sometimes not.

what is the core of the thread and quoted OP is if this sub-forum is a acceptable location for customers of poor/non performing hardware vendors to share experiences, ask pointed questions, and sometimes just vent. then to try to come up with method(s) to minimize the impact of that to other vendors who are performing well or have not yet missed a mark.

so please comment directly - do you think that customers of poorly performing vendors should have 'free speech' in this sub-forum (excluding threats of personal or property harm and such of course)?

In reality you are comparing apples to oranges, yet I will answer you in full.

Whether you are a customer of a company that is performing well or poorly, you should be allowed to post your experiences and within reason your thoughts. I posted my thoughts above because THAT is how I made my decision for the purchase I made after having done a lot of research through the older posts on this very forum. The people who feel they must then call me names and deride me for my decision are producing nothing more than a dark atmosphere that will prevent future posters from speaking their minds in fear of getting the same treatment. That type of 'free speech' should be curtailed as it produces nothing. If someone were to offer a well reasoned argument and detail why they felt my decision was wrong, I would look at their comments and research them and come to a new conclusion based on that and let them know why I either agreed or disagreed with them and list the points.

If you took the time to read though the majority of my postings, you'd notice that, as my signature states, the worse you treat me, the worse I respond. I have earned the emnity of many and the respect of few, but their opinion of me matters not to me, as I am secure in who I am. I personally love an intelligent debate, and this sub-forum would be a wondrus place if that was what we conducted here. Sadly, with the anonymity the internet provides, you have people lashing out like they never would in a face to face meeting.

The problem then becomes where to draw the line. Unless everyone agrees, it will just fuel the fire.