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Quote from: BADecker on February 20, 2018, 01:35:29 PM

There are at least 2 places in the Bible (one in Isaiah) that tell us that in the next life we will never remember any of this. It will never come to mind.

So, it is not that you don't believe in God. Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.

Don't throw away eternity for yourself. Having the pleasure of some deep anger against God in this life (though I don't see where there is pleasure in anger), is not worth losing your salvation for eternity.

Rather, humble yourself, and ask God to comfort you and bring peace to your mind and soul.

Cool

''Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.'' Actually as you can clearly see from my example above, I'm not angry or happy, it simply makes no sense and it's not fair.

What makes it unfair is the unfairness of mankind toward God. God gave His all in Jesus death on the cross. He did it to save mankind. But here you are, not only accepting the imperfection of being sinful in the first place, but extending your imperfection to the rejecting of the great sacrifice Jesus did to save you. You ain't fair. Certainly not to God.

Cool

God sacrificed himself to himself to forgive us. Another nonsense from the bible right there. It makes absolutely no sense and we are not even saved, we are still here, aren't we? Why did an omniscient and all powerful god need to sacrifice his ''son'' to forgive humanity? Why not just forgive us? What is there to forgive anyways, he already knew everything that would happen.

Perfection requires justice. God couldn't just forgive without destroying His Own perfection. The sacrifice of Jesus included the punishment for mankind that would maintain the perfection of God.

The perfection of mankind needed to be maintained, because God had judged mankind so extremely good at the time of the creation, that God placed His spirit within mankind. In order to maintain the perfection of His own judgment about mankind, He needed to maintain the perfection of mankind. The perfection having been maintained in the sacrifice of Jesus, mankind is now free to be his own agent... to accept God's perfection for himself, or to reject it.

Since God is love, He truly wishes mankind to accept the perfection of Godness or God-likeness. And since God is love and just, He realizes that He must not coerce any man in the judgment that each person makes.

There is no way to adequately and properly explain the things that are involved in the salvation of man. Suffice it to say that God is holding the salvation choice open for each person as long as that person lives. And since Jesus was God as well as man, mankind is being brought into God-likeness. Maintaining health is simply man using the strength of God that God has placed in each and every one of us.

Cool

What the fuck? Imagine I'm God and I know everything that's going to happen. It makes no sense for me to get mad at people I created for things they are going to do if I knew about it beforehand. There is no need to forgive anyone because I already know what's going to happen. If I didn't want that to happen then I wouldn't have created it, no?

What you say is a major example of one of the major points. Nobody can imagine how God thinks.

Since you don't know everything that's going to happen like God does, and since you don't know how things all work together, why would you even think your logic about creating or not creating is valid?

Since you know that your logic is not strong enough to be valid, you are simply hoping it might be valid, and you have faith that it is valid. This is exactly what religious people do in their religions.

Keep on worshiping yourself in your religious logic if you want. But when the chips are so far down that you can't find a way out, remember God. He will accept you if you come to Him sincerely. Do it now, unless you have locked yourself so deeply into God unbelief that you have no chance of turning to Him.

Cool

So am I supposed to just believe in something that I will never understand? Even if I knew god existed how would I ever know that what he is doing is the right thing? Why would anyone worship god if we can't even understand if he is good or not? Sure the bible says he is but how would we ever know?

What are you even yammering about? You believe in science, don't you? You believe in evolution, don't you? But the small amount of either one of them that you know - science or evolution - shows that you believe in things that you don't really know about very much.

How do you know about believing in science or evolution? Other people tell you about them. Same with the Bible writings. This means that you are very religions.

Go ahead and tell me that you know everything about science or evolution. I always like a good laugh.

Cool

You don't have to ''believe in science''. You know the earth is round, don't you? You make fun of notbatman because you know he is not right. We have experiments, photographic evidence, videos, tests, math, that proves the earth is not flat. That's science. Religion on the other hand doesn't have that, there is no test or photographic evidence, videos or math to prove it and yet you ask me to believe in your specific god and when I question his actions you simply tell me I don't understand. Why would anyone believe in that?

https://youtu.be/LQ0Vtk9ffGI

You don't have to believe in the Bible. You know it's a book, right?

Why do you have to believe in science? Because it wasn't you who did the scientific experiments (except that you might have done one or two). Other than that, you have to believe the scientists who did the experiments, or you have to believe the people who have written about the experiments the scientists did.

In other words, all of science is a religion for all people... except for the few scientific experiments anybody might have done for himself.

For example. You might have personally stuck a couple of electrodes into water, and found that you could split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Since you did it personally, there is a piece of science that you know, rather than having to take it on faith.

But are you one of the scientists who runs nuclear power plants? If you aren't, you have to believe what the scientists tell you, or what the some general "practitioner" scientists have written down in the books. What if they are lying? What if they are mistaken? Consider Fukushima and Chernobyl. Odds are that they aren't lying. But you don't know they aren't mistaken or lying. Religion.

Either you believe science and religion, or you don't, or you only believe one of them. But outside of a few small science experiments, you don't know that science is factual. Same with religion. There are those who tell you some factual experience about religion that they had, but they don't know it all, and you have to make the choice whether or not to believe them.

As far as you go, both religion and science are religion for you. Go to the doctor and get cured by religion. That's all it is for you, because you don't know for a fact that what they say is the truth. Unless you, yourself, are a very experienced doctor, you totally have to take it on faith... just like you have to take Bible scholars on faith if you want to believe them. You just believe and hope, same as any formal religion.

Cool

However, all the experiments and tests are written somewhere and I can also study the subject and perform the experiments myself, you don't have that possibility with religion because there are no experiments, no tests, no math, even If I wanted to test them by myself I couldn't because there are none. Sure you have to trust science in some things unless you want to study about everything and perform tests yourself but at least you have the possibility to actually do the experiments or at least understand them, again, you don't have that in religion, you are supposed to believe in it blindly because badecker says so and we can't understand god so we just have to follow what he says because he says so. There is no logic there. Science works, religion doesn't.

But you didn't read the experiments. You didn't do the experiments. Ever heard of the term "fake news?"

Some of the news has been fake for over a hundred years. But since it wasn't known to be fake way back then, it has been incorporated into the public psyche, and we accept it as truth... even though we don't know.

A simple example is the fake news of flat earth. Look at how many hundreds of years people believed it to be true. And (as you well know) there are those who keep on believing it today. They even have a lot of near-science built up to almost-prove that FE is real. And many of those FE people base their whole idea around religion, formally.

So, go out and do all the scientific the experiments so that you know your science isn't religion. But if you only do one or two, its religion for you. And you know what that means, don't you? When you get good (or bad) health by following medical advice, you have, Health and Religion.

Cool

But you are ignoring my point. Your religion doesn't have any experiments or tests, even if someone wanted to see if they were right they wouldn't be able to. I obviously cannot study and perform tests on everything I do or use. I don't need to perform a scientific experiment to see that my PC is working or that planes fly. Science works, I have ''faith'' in science because it has proven to me that it works time after time just like when you have faith in your wife that she wont cheat on you because she has proven to be loyal. This doesn't mean it wont happen just like science, it could be wrong but there is really no reason to think it is. When it comes to health I'm sure you go to a doctor or a hospital, don't you? Did you study medicine? Do you need to, to trust doctors? Why do you trust doctors? Because you know they have studied medicine and you know science works.

This is the essence of science vs religion.

Well, bring your point back on topic, and you will see that health and religion have a lot to do with each other. Coincube and I have been showing you this over and over, and some of it has to do with science.

Your science is only your personal religion, and doesn't match general science.

Cool

Coincube maybe, you not so much. I also think he accepts evolution as a fact but I'm not sure.

Well, that makes me kinda happy. Got your goat cause you can't prove much, if anything. And I can even out-talk your political science. All Right! Maybe you will wake up before it's too late for you.

Cool

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