Quote from: metal_jacke1 on September 23, 2013, 05:51:20 PM

Quote from: Puppet on September 23, 2013, 05:28:54 PM

Quote from: metal_jacke1 on September 23, 2013, 05:05:33 PM

Value can be interpreted in any way shape and form. Craigslist lists items that are worth in value, all private sales.

Indeed. tradable contracts issued again anything of value is a security. That can be gold, oil, bread or bitcoins.

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Im not sure how you can say that something is illegal when it's not even law.

The law doesnt mention rembrandt paintings either, you think that makes it legal to steal, vandalize or counterfeit ?

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Im not sure what "law" you're referring to. I assume the Securities Act of 1933, which does mention "FOREIGN" Currency.

Read the context. The foreign currency swap is one of many examples of objects of the contract. But try reading the rest of the phrase too, like this part:
,he term security means any note, stock, treasury
stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture,
evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation .

Note the absence of the words coal, corn, dollars, oil.
And bitcoin.

Doesnt mean it doesnt apply.

Im talking about the definition of bitcoin and the governments jurisdiction over it. BTCT had no contracts, everything was "SIMULATED" as according to their terms and conditions. You cant compare "theft" with trading in btc.

Yes, Im familiar with the Securities Act of 1933 but you realize that judges cant legislate from the bench right?

Further, from your logic, the SEC can regulate my Pokemon card trading game if I sell contracts and speculate the value of rare Pokemon cards? No, there is a line between private property and government control. You ceding your rights to the government will make Bitcoin fail.

The Securities Act is a statute passed by Congress with 80 years of judicial interpretation already baked in, not to mention the regulations promulgated by the agencies charged with its enforcement. No legislating from the bench is required at this point.

You can sell all the Pokemon cards you want. When you make a general offering of shares in your Pokemon collection to the public, you are plainly in SEC or CFTC territory. No amount of "virtual" or "simulated" disclaimers change the substance of the transaction.