Quote from: Rampion on September 25, 2013, 09:04:53 AM

We will have to agree to disagree then. In my book, a $10M hole for a young and relatively small company as MtGox is a huge hole. Pretending its "peanuts" is being in denial of the facts. You repeat they have "millions on the order book", which obviously doesn't change the fact that a part of that money, credited to customers balances, is very probably not backed up by fiat in their banks, as they are obviously short of $10M. In fact, they pretty much admit it:

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Defendants are informed and believe that in March and April, 2013 MtGox customers, at the
suggestion of CoinLab, deposited $12,788,701.08 into one or more CoinLab bank accounts;
CoinLab then caused the amount of such funds to be credited to such customers' MtGox
accounts but CoinLab did not transfer the actual funds into the MtGox bank account. As a
result, such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available
to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account. In April, 2013, and upon
the demand of MtGox, CoinLab transferred a portion of those amounts, $ 7,473,490.29, to the
MtGox bank account, leaving a balance of approximately $ 5,315,210.79 to be transferred to
the MtGox account and which is being wrongfully held by CoinLab.

So they they are admitting they have a big hole, and they do not say anywhere that they had to cover the hole with their own money (I would have stated that clearly in the official document, to wipe out doubt about insolvency - wouldn't have you?). The only hard cold fact they are stating is "such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account".

We have, from the same source, a number for their profit between April and August 20th. 8 million USD. + 12 million visible bids in the order book + whatever is in the withdrawal queue + funds not in the order book + profit since August 20th (about 500k by my estimates, counting the 2.5% mixed currency conversion fee as income). That is a lot of money. I can only see 1.5 million possibly missing from the total, and that can not possibly explain any current withdrawal problems. The numbers just don't add up to anything resembling a problem. They have a few hundred thousands of BTC as well.

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Plus, instead of being transparent and disclosing their balances as any serious company would do after the mainstream media started to write that Gox might be insolvent (Forbes, Wired....),

Show me one single other company which actually did that.

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while many customers started to leave them for good, causing a very unhealthy spread of +10% between exchanges, they just make up absurd excuses such as "the current withdraw problems are being caused by the traditional banking system, not because of a lack of liquidity at MtGox. The traditional banking partners that MtGox needs to work with, are not able to keep up with the demands of the growing Bitcoin economy"

Why don't you find that credible? At least it matches all curreently known facts perfectly well, which your explanation don't.

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Really? The above seems the most plausible answer to you after all the facts Gox have been hiding and that we now know?

Do you know any facts that I don't know?

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Finally, I'm amazed by the fact you keep repeating "they have $12M in their order book", like that is somewhat reassuring:

that money is just on Gox balances, it might very well not being backed by fiat in their back accounts (AS THEY STATED IN THE ANSWER TO COINLAB)

Then why do you think their profit is 0? They got most of the money from CoinLab in April. Why did they have any problems in the beginning of June then? Nobody, not even you, have presented any indications of MtGox beeing insolvent in the beginning of June. You have two weeks you can't explain, and even after those two weeks you are more than 10 million USD short of making MtGox insolvent with your calculations. Even if not everything is backed up with money in accounts, they can't be more than 2 million USD short, and there are at least 12 million USD in bids in their order book. They could keep up like nothing have happened and make that 2 million before Christmas. Why wouldn't they? Your explanation just don't make any sense. Why should risk their customers if they, by your calculations, didn't have to?

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[/li][li]even if that money is fully backed by existing funds in their bank, what do you want them to do with it? That is supposed to be their customers money, they are not supposed to operate/cover holes with that!![/li][/list]

Huh? They could let users withdraw the funds, if they didn't have banking problems.

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I don't know if you have any experience in running a business, but it doesn't seem so: the fact is they only have $12M in the order book (again: customers money), and they admittedly have a hole of $10M.

No, they admittedly (and easily verifiable) have a profit of more than 8 million USD as well. Which, makes the hole only 2 million. Which makes their positive balance at least 10 million USD + money in withdrawal queue + customers money not in visible bids (most of my money are not in visible bids).

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So, the hole is almost equal to the full amount of fiat they have in their order book,

Obviously wrong to anyone who knows basic arithmetics.

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Another fact is they allegedly had only an income of $8M during the 4 months of all time high usd volume EVER, and again the hole is $10M. Let me tell you that's a huge hit for a business, having a hole significantly (20%) bigger that the income you got in your best 4 months ever is a BIG problem for ANY company. When the alleged hole was "just" $5M, I thought it was bearable. Now that we discover the hole is $10M, I can't help being worried.

You mention the profit, but pretend it doesn't exist when talking about the hole. Why can't their profit be used to fill the hole?